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E-15 Warning / FOX New's


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  #1  
Old 01-09-2013, 09:52:54 AM
DaveHC DaveHC is offline
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Default E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Interesting 5 min. article about the dangers of the new E-15 gas for 2012 and older vehicles .
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:44:55 AM
Edwin
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Thanks for sharing this,is it only in the US at this point?this is pretty sad to know you cant trust no body anymore,Pathetic!
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:03:00 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

By Federal law, it is illegal to use E-15 in small engines or marine engines. It is illegal to put it in vehicles built before 2012. It is against FAA regulations to use any alcoholized fuel in aircraft. WHO MONITORS WHERE IT IS PUT?

With E-10 showing up to 27% alcohol in pump gas, how does the government think that the new E-15 will be any better regulated, or be put only in vehicles designed for it's use? The whole alcoholized gas system is a farce, with virtually no governmental regulation or inspection on what exactly is put in todays gas.

Besides the auto manufacturers mentioned in the web post, most small engine manufacturers have the same policy. if you use E-15, you have NO Warrenty. Stihl already has a fuel testing system in place, that tests fuel used in their saws. The fuel is tested before any work is done on their equipment. It tests alcohol content, and age of the fuel, by testing the decomposition of the fuel (YES they can date your fuel!). It also tests for oil content. Be sure to use oil recommended by the manufacturer. If more than 10% alcohol os found, NO warrenty. Fuel more than 40 days old - NO warrenty.

'E-10' has been found with up to 27% alky in it, and if your warrenty was denied because of the extra alky, then it is up to you to prove where and when you bought the fuel, and what was suposed to be the alcolhol content. You then have to go after the station where they sold you the gas, AND their source (the manufacturer of the fuel). If indeed your fuel was doctered, your state burough of standards may help. In another words, GET a receipt for your gas, use it within 30 days of sale, and if you have mechanical issues, get out your receipts!

Andrew
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:29:25 PM
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

I've never tried copying and pasting a link before, so I hope this works....

http://wzus1.ask.com/r?t=p&d=us&s=a&...mplate%3DMyths

Lots of interesting reading debunking many of the Myths surrounding Ethanol.

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 PM ----------

I just checked the link, and it does work......
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:43:56 PM
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

There's just as much bullshit on myth sites as any other web site. Put your own brain and experience to the task. We are all being crapped on by the EPA anyway you look at it.

At least I have an E85 flex-fuel Jeep, but I also have a gasser motorhome with an 80 gallon tank that sits for long periods. Not good. I've bought up a supply of Coleman fuel for my old engines after seeing the brown varnish crap that gasoline leaves in the fuel lines.

E0 anyone?
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:46:23 PM
onstottc onstottc is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

We have an old volvo where the solder joint to the filler neck kept cracking. Jb weld fixed this for several years until E10 came out. It only took a day or two for the JB weld to soften and fail.

After trying a number of things, someone recommended Seal All. That stuff works great and seems to be alcohol resistant.

Now I just need to worry about it slowly ruining my SU carbs.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:56:10 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Thumbs down Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Most of the link that Otto Sawyer posted states FLEX FUEL Conversion. Most older cars do not have that conversion. Alcohol is a lubricant? I don't think so. All the conversation in the site is about autos. We are not talking about car engines. I did see that they state that E 15 does not explode in the cylinders, that it burns all the way down the bore. Sorry to disappoint, but gasoline does not explode in the cylinders. It does burn, rapidly at the top of the combustion chamber, and PARTIALLY down the bore, as the piston descends on the power stroke. Fuel burning all the way down the bore, WILL burn off the protective oil coating on the cylinder, causing excess wear and heating of the cylinder and rings (burning up the engine?). Note that they address the excess fuel usage. No, it won't cause you to burn 50% more gas, BUT even they acknowledge that you WILL use up to more than 15% more fuel than 'regular'. As 'regular' is now, for the most part, E-10, which already has a power and fuel usage loss of about 20%, you now end up with a 35% total loss of economy. As explained in the web post by DaveHC, you are using more gas and spending more money to go the same distance. Since you are burning more fuel, you are making more pollution! Where are you saving more money? You are not paying less for alcoholized gas, if anything it is more expensive. Where are the savings?

Sorry, I don't buy all the rhetoric. Alcoholized gas is not saving anything for the working public. It is making a lot of money for the special interests, the gas companies, the politicians, and the sellers of equipment used to replace damaged items that are ruined by use of alcoholized fuel.
Andrew
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:24:53 PM
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Ken Majeski Ken Majeski is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Around here ethanol Free gas is readily available. It is a simple matter to test it. At a lot of the stations the premium grade is ethanol free.

Where I buy most of my Gas the regular is ethanol free but the higher grade has ethanol and is stated so on the pump. I thought it was BS untill I checked some.

If people buy it they will sell it. There is a solution to that

All you need to check for ethanol is a tall bottle, a little water, a marker or tape and some of your gas.
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Last edited by Ken Majeski; 01-09-2013 at 03:50:24 PM. Reason: Forgot the water
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:33:26 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Good gawd the ethanol posts drive me nuts..

Bad/illegal for everything before 2012? What about the millions of flex fuel vehicles on the road?

That fox news story is full of more crap....

On the same pump, there will be e-85, or even diesel. And maybe a CNG pump near all that. All labeled. Put the right fuel in your car or get stranded. Simple as that.
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:38:48 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

If you want to check the alcohol content for yourself, order part # 795161 from your local Briggs dealer. Around $9.



Here's some fuel from a customer's snowblower.... Photo isn't the best, but it shows less than 10% alcohol.


Last edited by sprkplug; 01-09-2013 at 03:57:14 PM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:42:13 PM
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

There is No Rocket Science to testing for ethanol. Just put a little water in the B&S tester or a tall bottle to a marked line near the bottom. Then fill the rest of the way with your Gas and shake it.

The water will absorb the ethanol and the amount of water you gain will be the amount of ethanol in your gas.

It's well worth your time if you use gas in old engines, Chain saws, sno blowers ect.

People seem to think that burning ethanol is something New The fact is that even a Model T Ford will run OK on E-85. The computer (You) will have to open the mixture adjustment a little. It's on the right hand side under the dash.
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Last edited by Ken Majeski; 01-09-2013 at 06:56:11 PM. Reason: One too many words
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:53:03 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

I don't see that many flex-fuel vehicles in this part of the country. Don't even know where they would find E-85 as any of the stations that I fill up at don't have it.

Bill
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:23:36 PM
uglyblue66 uglyblue66 is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Burn dinosaur drippings.
Eat the Corn OR
Drink the corn squezzens.
Burning it in our cars is bull stool.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:24:07 PM
pegasuspinto pegasuspinto is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

I can't speak for Canada, but in the US, even where E-85 is/was not available, flex fuel vehicles are pretty common. A lot of the 3.0 liter v6 fords were flex fuel(common fleet engine in rangers and some mid side sedans from the late 1990's on) and a lot of full size chevys were as well. The universal 'sign' now is a yellow fuel cap. They sold thousands to fleet buyers in Arkansas, we had no e-85 pumps till just a couple years ago.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:30:37 PM
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Wink Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
Most of the link that Otto Sawyer posted states FLEX FUEL Conversion. Most older cars do not have that cinversion. Alcohol is a lubricant? I don't think so. All the conversation in the site is about autos. We are not talking about car engines....Andrew
Two funny points there Andrew.

Point number 1 the site does Not say "Alcohol is a lubricant" it SAYS about the E85 they are promoting, (and this is cut and pasted from it) "" the 15% gas will help keep lines lubricated. ""

And point number 2.... What do you mean we're not talking about car engines ? When the opening post says the dangers of the new E-15 gas for 2012 and older vehicles , and your own post number 3 says It is illegal to put it in vehicles built before 2012, and put only in vehicles designed for it's use, and Besides the auto manufacturers mentioned in the web post, now all the sudden you're saying we're Not talking about car engines.

I don't know what kind of engine Your car has in it, but my car has a 'car engine' in it, and that's what this thread was talking about.... Your own post included.

Harry: Yes I realize that one website isn't any better than the other, I don't argue that fact, but that also goes Both Ways. I just posted that link to show the other side of the issue. It may not be 100% accurate, but neither is a lot of the Anti-Ethanol propaganda that everyone keeps throwing around.

And YES I realize that particular website is promoting their conversion kits for E85, but a lot of what they say about the E85 also applies to E10 and E15 and E25, all of which I have used for years myself with No problems at all, as have many other people.

Last edited by OTTO-Sawyer; 01-09-2013 at 07:42:19 PM. Reason: added "I don't argue that fact"
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:44:28 PM
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

I don't see ethanol or gasoline as a lubricant any more then water. That being said any liquid is better then none. From all that I understand, the 15% gas is mostly to assure cold weather starts. It's also required by federal law that the ethanol is denatured, so there will always be some gasoline in ethanol for now.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:01:14 PM
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTTO-Sawyer View Post
I've never tried copying and pasting a link before, so I hope this works....

http://wzus1.ask.com/r?t=p&d=us&s=a&...mplate%3DMyths

Lots of interesting reading debunking many of the Myths surrounding Ethanol.

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 PM ----------

I just checked the link, and it does work......
Thanks for the link. It is a nice summary of the myths and facts. If you don't believe them, then do the investigation yourself, study what ethanol really does, and experiment with it. I have, and I would back up that everything is true on the website.

Or you can believe the lady spouting off on fox that admits to not knowing anything about it, but is just regurgitating rumors that she read on the internet.

As I have said before, I use E10 in all of my vehicles, including my motorcycle. I haven't measured a difference in mileage in any of them compared to straight gas. I have used up to E50 in my non flex fuel S10. 220,000 miles later and it is still running fine. I do however avoid using it in my tractors and small engines. It will the gunk out of your old tanks, causing plugging problems, and it will absorb water if it sits over time in something that is improperly stored.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:20:35 PM
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

One thing I was wondering about with E85 is about fire safety.

My friend used to run Methanol in his race car until he had a carburator fire. Noone knew it was on fire till other things started burning and smoking. Alcohol flames are clear. We switched back to gasoline. I think we used about twice the volume of fuel to make about 10% more horsepower with the methanol. We also had to change the oil all the time. It would turn to milk after about 2 or 3 quartermile passes.

Maybe this is no issue with 15%gas. I just don't know?
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:44:14 PM
RSCurtis RSCurtis is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

That's one of the reasons the gas is there, to provide a visible flame. The other is that it enhances cold startability.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:59:08 PM
SAMccomber SAMccomber is offline
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Default Re: E-15 Warning / FOX New's

Going along with what Ken has already said, here in NE Wisconsin we have had ethanol in our fuel for many years. Usually 87 octane ("regular") is marked as having 10% ethanol, as is 89 ("mid grade"). A lot of stations have 91 octane that is labeled as "premium" and also as ethanol-free. If a station has 93 octane premium it is likely because it contains ethanol which boosts the octane rating.

Political, economic, thermodynamic, and environmental facts aside, one fact of life here in Wisconsin is that it would be very difficult to constantly purchase gas that does not contain ethanol. The only time I make this effort is when I fill my gas drum that is used only to fill the tank on my four-stroke dirt bike. I need consistent fuel at 91 octane so the 14:1 compression ratio doesn't send parts out the side of the block at 14,500 RPM. Everything else I own with a gasoline engine runs on regular, which in Wisconsin is E10. I am fully aware that E10 deteriorates faster than no-ethanol fuel, but part of the storage issue is not the fault of the fuel.

Back in the '80s and earlier, most gas powered equipment had metal gas tanks. Vented gas caps aside, metal tanks are impervious to gasoline and its vapors. Newer plastic tanks are not. The lighter, more volatile compounds in the gas find their way through the plastic over time and leave the heavier compounds behind. If this goes on long enough, you end up with varnish. With this in mind, I store gasoline in steel tanks and keep them capped. I have stored 5-gallon cans of E10 gas like this for over a year with no ill effects or performance issues on my small engine powered equipment.

Another issue that E10 causes is rust in steel tanks. Ethanol is corrosive because it has a strong affinity for water. In my house, it also has a strong affinity for ice and orange juice, but that's a different subject. If you have read this thread from the beginning you should know that, in order to precipitate ethanol out of gasoline to test for ethanol concentration, all you need to do is add water. A fact of our humid summers here is that water is in our air. Lots of it. On a typical day in late May it will go from 50-some degrees in the morning to 80-some degrees in the afternoon and back to 50-something at night. Thermal expansion of air in less-than-full gas tanks causes air to move in and out, giving a daily supply of moisture which binds to the ethanol and winds up rusting the tank out over time. A simple rule for storing equipment is this: Keep the tank full to the top. The less air there is to carry mointure, the less moisture you will have in your fuel, and the less rust. Gas also deteriorates slower in larger quantities.

Putting my political, economic, and environmental opinions aside, I have had no problems with E10 fuel, rusty gas tank here and there on a barn-find being the only exception. The 46 gas engines I have, from my 1929 IH 1.5 HP model M to my ford pickup with 340,000 miles to my 24 year-old 2-stroke snowmobile do just fine on E10. I have a lot of aging equipment with a lot of miles on it, but have never had fuel ruin an engine. Just keep the tanks full when storing and keep fuel, whether is has ethanol in it or not, in steel cans when storing it. If/when E15 shows up here in Wisconsin, I will follow the same rules and just turn the mixture screw out a hair. I'm not looking forward to it, but I'm also not losing sleep over it.

Scott
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