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Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery Discussion about misc. carbs, mixers, fuel pumps, injectors.

Carburetors, Mixers, Fuel Pumps and fuel delivery

Aluminum adhesive


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  #1  
Old 06-10-2014, 09:29:09 PM
Reed K Reed K is offline
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Default Aluminum adhesive

What would be the best adhesive to bond two pieces of aluminum. Need something that can take a lot of vibration and stress.
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Old 06-10-2014, 10:18:09 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

The urethane adhesive that they use to glue windshields in is very tough, may require a primer.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:29:07 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

Best way depends alot on thickness and size of aluminum to be bonded.
There's http://www.hotmelt.com/products/alum...FQaBfgodexcAQA epoxy.
There is spot welding... (only for thin stuff and requires small steel inserts between copper tips and aluminum.)
Last is an odd one: Soldering. Requires removal of oxide surface. One trick is to apply a drop of light oil to surface to keep it from rapidly oxidizing while you tin it. Solder right through the oil to tin both sides of the joint. Tinning then prevents the rapid oxidation so you can sweat solder the surfaces together. I've also seen urethane epoxy, but it is very pricey.
Doc

---------- Post added at 01:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:25 AM ----------

Oh... after applying oil, you need to remove oxide with an abrassive or wire brush. Reading back I see I missed that part. Was blown away the first time a friend showed me how to solder a wire to a sheet of aluminum.
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Old 06-11-2014, 10:10:42 AM
kwfiggatt kwfiggatt is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

Wow - the soldering aluminum info is neat. What kind of flux and what kind of solder? Ordinary 50/50 solder and plumbing flux? Or, do you even need the flux, since you are protecting the surface with the oil?

Thanks,

Kevin
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:54:18 PM
I like oldstuff I like oldstuff is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

kwf, brazing aluminum is very tricky and difficult to do manually until you learn all the nuances. I have provided numerous automated aluminum brazing systems to Ford, GM, and Chrysler all for brazing tubes and fittings to air conditioning condensers and other components.

The problem is essentially that the brazing alloy melts 100-150 degrees below the parent metal therefore requires precise attention to controlling the heat.

You can't use convention lead/tin/antimony/silver solder or brazing alloys or conventional fluxes. The alloy is a discreet aluminum composition and has to be used with a dedicated aluminum flux. This typically is called Nocalox.

Cleanliness is more important than anything you've ever brazed, and using a torch typically introduces contaminates that make a crappy joint.

As to bonding with adhesive, look at 3M, Fusor, and Lord adhesives. They are the major suppliers to automotive. Note that these good adhesives are heat cure and need over 180F to crosslink and set up.

Last edited by I like oldstuff; 06-11-2014 at 03:23:21 PM.
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Old 06-11-2014, 06:48:44 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwfiggatt View Post
Wow - the soldering aluminum info is neat. What kind of flux and what kind of solder? Ordinary 50/50 solder and plumbing flux? Or, do you even need the flux, since you are protecting the surface with the oil?
First off I'm talking about light gauge aluminum and a fairly small joint area. I've used regular rosin core 60/40 electronics solder. The purpose of the oil is strictly to keep the oxygen away from the aluminum surface once the aluminum oxide is removed. Aluminum oxide is chemically identical to Saphire. Aluminum is what is referred to as a self healing metal. The reason it doesn't corrode is because any scratch through the surface oxide will very rapidly oxidize again. The aluminum oxide then prevents any further oxidation. So the oil blocks the oxidation while you TIN the desired area with a lead/tin coating, which also blocks oxidation. After entire area of both sides of the joint are tinned, they can then be clamped together and sweat soldered by application of sufficient heat for both tinned areas to melt. There are aluminum solders available, but I've never had much luck with them. I can see brazing would be another thing entirely, as "I Like Old Things" suggested. Very tricky.

But you haven't as yet specified the gauge of the aluminum or the size of the joint. Such may be beyond my suggested method.
Doc
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Old 06-12-2014, 10:45:10 AM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

I have had good results with Harbor Freights aluminum brazing rods.
Clean the metal till it shines.
heat with propane torch
scratch rod all over surface to be joined.
The stuff melts around 700*F
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Old 06-12-2014, 12:09:48 PM
ChipTosser ChipTosser is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

Can you give us an example of what you are wanting to bond with an adhesive?
What and how is this going to be used? The weight, size of flat, flange area lenght.
Is it being exposed to oils, fuels?
There area number of good adhesives, just need more information on how what the requirements are.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:33:44 PM
Reed K Reed K is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

It is a flange 1/2 x 1 Inches that needs to be attached to the bottom side of a cast aluminum carburetor. The flange will have a bracket bolted to it with a approx weight of 2 lbs. The only bonding compound I am familiar with is JB weld. Thanks in advance for the help!
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:49:33 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

Have you considered fabbing a bracket from another area? Mounting to a carb could be inviting trouble.
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Old 06-12-2014, 01:55:11 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

A carb is pot metal, the HF rods will still work, just do not overheat the base because it will suddenly let loose, it will sludge then liquify. You must be careful with pot metal repairs.
You can get a lower temp rod from Muggy weld which melts at 350* F.

http://muggyweld.com/pot-metal-repair

HF rods
http://www.harborfreight.com/8-piece...ods-44810.html
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Old 06-12-2014, 09:15:09 PM
sdowney717 sdowney717 is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

JBweld was good stuff for gasoline exposure but not anymore due to E10.
It turns brown and cracks and crumbles off aluminum.
I tried it in 3 different apps with carbs and all failed.
One was bottom well sealing of Rochestor 4MV.
Two was cracked fuel tank aluminum top Briggs lawnmower
Three was old aluminum model B Brigs carb flange top where throttle shaft is bored.
Eventually it softens and cracks and you can peel it off with your fingers.
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Old 06-12-2014, 11:40:49 PM
pjjms pjjms is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

Brazing the bottom of a carb is for the experienced. Talk to your local RV shop, they bond cladding all the time. 2lb may be a stretch though.
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Old 06-13-2014, 12:56:23 AM
gootsch gootsch is offline
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Default Re: Aluminum adhesive

I used to get from NAPA something called Cold Weld Compound made by Loctite as I remember. I bonded to aluminum and other metals with no problems. We even fixed a crack between two cylinders in an AC tractor with it and a crack in the water jacket deep within the vee of an 8V92 Detroit Diesel, it lasted for years until the truck caught fire and burn to a crisp.
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