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Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs Discussion about magnetos, buzz coils, spark plugs, ignitors and low tension coils.

Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs

Witte 2HP Ignition identification


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  #1  
Old 08-04-2015, 10:34:50 AM
CoalRoller CoalRoller is offline
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Default Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Greetings Hit and Miss enthusiasts!

I am new to the forum, this is my first post. I have lurked around for a while and just picked up my first Hit and Miss motor last Saturday. It is a Witte 2HP (Model 55704). It did not run when I picked it up, but it was loose and barn fresh. The patina on this motor looks great! I got it for $450 and thought this was a pretty good price for my first motor.

I got it all cleaned up and oiled/greased, put on some new skids and old steel wheels from Menards. I fired it up last night for the first time. You can see my YouTube video here Witte 2HP Hit and Miss First Run.

It was running a bit fast so I swapped out the stock governor springs with some looser fitting and it runs closer to 500RPM now.

My question is this:

I put a Buzz coil on it and was able to time it OK, but there is a bracket on this motor and it looks like someone might have had a magneto on it. Can someone identify this bracket and tell me if I could put a mag on this? It does not have a mag trip cam right now, but I have seen others posted that do have the trip cam. I am a total newcomer to this and any and all help greatly appreciated!

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  #2  
Old 08-04-2015, 10:43:22 AM
CoalRoller CoalRoller is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Here is a video with the new springs on it slowing down the idle. Witte 2HP Headless slower idle
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:37:28 PM
Kirk Taylor Kirk Taylor is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoalRoller View Post
Greetings Hit and Miss enthusiasts!

My question is this:

I put a Buzz coil on it and was able to time it OK, but there is a bracket on this motor and it looks like someone might have had a magneto on it. Can someone identify this bracket and tell me if I could put a mag on this? It does not have a mag trip cam right now, but I have seen others posted that do have the trip cam. I am a total newcomer to this and any and all help greatly appreciated!
Nice looking engine!

Yes, that bracket is for a Bosch oscillating mag. Here's a thread that shows the mag.

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117648

Do a search for "witte bosch". There should be several other threads and photos in the archives.

Kirk
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Old 08-06-2015, 10:43:19 AM
CoalRoller CoalRoller is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Thanks for the info Kirk!

When I picked this up, the previous owner was running this on a buzz coil and battery. The research I have done shows that the Witte 2hp engines without a mag had a spark advance/retard lever on them. This one DOES NOT have a lever anywhere.

I am able to get the engine to start and run for about 10 - 15 minutes. Enough to get the water in the hopper to about 150 degrees. It will then sound like it is starving for fuel or spark and just dies. Witte 2hp run and quit

These are the things I have done so far:

1. Checked spark, is fine
2. Fuel tank is full
3. pickup check valve free and clean.
4. needle valve and seat cleaned
5. new gaskets on intake and exhaust mounting flanges
6. Excellent compression - almost impossible to turn over by hand

Because this DOES NOT have the spark advance lever, could this be the cause of my motor dying out like this? I have tried increasing the gas flow as well as playing with the choke and that does not appear to make a difference. 21 clicks from full closed with the fuel adjust seems to be the sweet spot to get this started and running.

Here is the procedure I do to get it started. Having never done this before or talked to anyone, this has been trial and error for me.

1. open the choke and spray some fuel in the intake with the poppet pushed down.
2. open the fuel 21 clicks from fully seated
3. hook up my 6volt battery to the buzz coil
4. slowly advance the flywheel to BTDC
5. pull it hard

Usually on the second rotation, it will kick the flywheels in the opposite direction 1 revolution and when it comes around, it fires again and starts running on it's own. I do notice that I can almost never rotate it the correct direction with it primed when the spark hits because it kicks it back and almost throws me over the motor if I don't let go of the flywheels quickly!

Wondering if when this gets warm, the plug starts to foul perhaps?

Any tips greatly appreciated as always! I am really getting my exercise trying to keep this thing running!
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Old 08-06-2015, 11:36:09 AM
CoalRoller CoalRoller is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Here is the plug. It is a champion X. I ordered 2 new plug replacements today, Autolite 3095 is what they showed as a replacement. I will try these then.
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:13:58 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

I would take the Champion apart first and clean it real well with some fine emery cloth. I am not a fan of the new Autolites so I would look for another Champion. You should also retard the timing enough so you can roll it through without pulling the flywheel out of your hand. You could also try 12 volts on the buzz coil, some were made to use higher voltage or try a different coil altogether.
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Old 08-06-2015, 02:51:17 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Nice Engine and a great findthose barn fresh engines in original shape are getting harder to find and they do run and sound better when they are governed properly.the engine you have is called a headless type or what we call a Headless Witte.good luck with your engine.John



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Old 08-06-2015, 03:27:46 PM
Kirk Taylor Kirk Taylor is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoalRoller View Post
Thanks for the info Kirk!

When I picked this up, the previous owner was running this on a buzz coil and battery. The research I have done shows that the Witte 2hp engines without a mag had a spark advance/retard lever on them. This one DOES NOT have a lever anywhere.

I am able to get the engine to start and run for about 10 - 15 minutes. Enough to get the water in the hopper to about 150 degrees. It will then sound like it is starving for fuel or spark and just dies. Witte 2hp run and quit......

I do notice that I can almost never rotate it the correct direction with it primed when the spark hits because it kicks it back and almost throws me over the motor if I don't let go of the flywheels quickly!
Since your engine was originally equipped with a magneto, it will not have the battery ignition retard lever on it. The lever functioned by rotating the battery contact around the cam to advance and retard the ignition timing.

As you have discovered, a headless Witte will kick like a mule unless the spark is retarded. You can make it easier on yourself by releasing part of the compression before you pull it over. Bring the engine around to the compression stroke like you normally would. Then, hold the intake valve open and rotate the flywheels until the crank throw is pointed straight down or even a little beyond. Release the intake valve and give the engine a quick flip through compression as usual. You'll have less compression to deal with, and the engine will still fire hard enough to make it through the next cycle.

It's tough to diagnose your problem with the information available, but from what is shown on the video it most likely is a loss of spark. And, as has been suggested, the most probable cause of that would be a fouled spark plug. Either the spark is traveling down the porcelain or a piece of carbon is getting stuck in the gap. Also as has been suggested, if you can get the plug apart without damaging it, you can clean the porcelain. Wipe it with a rag wetted with carburetor cleaner first. If that doesn't work, use fine emery paper or cloth wetted with carb cleaner. Whatever you do, DO NOT use a wire wheel, pocket knife, or anything else metal. Use new emery paper to avoid the possibility that it would be contaminated with metal particles.
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Old 08-06-2015, 07:30:57 PM
CoalRoller CoalRoller is offline
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Talking Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Thank you so much for all the advise!

I retarded the timing, reduced the fuel to 13 clicks and put in the new autolite. (I'm going to clean up that Champion X). Ran for over 1 hour like a champ and NEVER missed a beat!

Witte 2HP Tuned!

Could not have done it without your guys and this great site. Thanks so much!

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Old 08-06-2015, 07:38:27 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

If you need anymore parts for your engine try here.John


www.hitnmiss.com
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Old 08-10-2015, 11:16:40 AM
CoalRoller CoalRoller is offline
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

I was looking online for the BAO or 1922 Mag for this engine to replace the buzz coil. This engine originally had the mag on it, someone replaced it with the buzz coil.

So far every place I have looked, these coils are as much as I spent on the whole engine!

Perhaps this is why it was replaced with the old Buzz coil?

I would like to put the original Mag on here, but am having a hard time with the cost. Can anyone point me to a place where I might be able to fine one less expensive?

Thanks!
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Old 08-10-2015, 09:01:10 PM
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Default Re: Witte 2HP Ignition identification

Those mags are very hard to find , I still need one more for my headless Witte collection , you have a nice engine there and putting the correct mag on it will make it even nicer in my opinion, it is hard to spend more for the mag than the engine though .
Good luck with it .
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