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10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16


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  #1  
Old 02-10-2013, 10:47:42 AM
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Default 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Sixteenth page in the restoration series of an early 1884 American Engine.

For navigating to the previous page click here:
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112545

While waiting for my Iron foundry to get their act together, I thought it would be a good time to make a working model of the slide system and prove it out.
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The following project was actually started back in 1997 and abandoned for a lack of the knowledge on how to successfully scale down the carrier flame and the chamber it resides in. It wasn't until recent that we were able to modify Ottos valve pocket shape and timing - this finally enabled successful miniaturization of his design with functioning flame ignition. The slide valve on this test engine has port volumes about 1/4 that of the smallest production engines made ( the 1/2 HP side crank Schleicher and the French License' of the 1/2 HP Deutz.)
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It was fortunate the time was available and spend the past two weeks building this project. I chaulked it up as a true learning experience and confidence builder. Although miniature, it still allowed for a "practice" build of the whole slide valve system that will be used in the larger engine in our shop.
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The frame of the engine is based on an extensively modified spare 1/2 scale 1 HP Springfield 2" bore x 3 1/2" stroke with reduced compression. Main fuel source and ignition flame & relight flame are all Hydrogen.


Last edited by Wayne Grenning; 02-10-2013 at 12:25:49 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:57:01 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

A Slide Valve Springfield and a double sideshaft at that!!!!! I like it !!!!!!

Last edited by Keven Withers; 02-10-2013 at 04:07:32 PM. Reason: changed word.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:57:49 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

that sure is a nice running engine wayne

chuck
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:06:06 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Wayne, The stuff that comes out of your shop is absolutely amazing!
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:42:08 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

absolutely amazing! your work is out of this world. can't wait to see more of the big engine!
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:11:54 PM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Wayne, your "tinkering" is better than 99.9% of everyone else's best work!
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:52:23 PM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Wayne:

That little engine sure runs nice.

I assume the popping sound is the ignition flame being re-ignited.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:19:48 PM
Kevin O. Pulver Kevin O. Pulver is offline
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Grenning
The following project was actually started back in 1997 and abandoned ...
It was fortunate the time was available and spend the past two weeks building this project.
[YOUTUBE
CSm--9rmL6E[/YOUTUBE]
If you'd been working on that STEADY since 1997, I'd be less suprised. Pretty Impressive! I love the popping sound.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:13:37 PM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Not to hijack my own thread, but I could post a couple photos of the making of this test engine and slide valve & gas valve while it was under construction ----- if interested
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:20:23 PM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Interested? Interested? Ahhhhh, yes please!

I for one would love to see some of the iterations of your prototypes.....

And thank you for posting this diversion to your original thread as you wait for parts to be successfully cast.
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:30:06 PM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Wayne I'm sure anyone following the other thread would love to see photo's of this little gem in the making! Only when you have time...as we all know you're a busy man.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:14:04 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

I wont go into great detail but will post a few highlights.

The first step was to find a donor engine frame to start with. As mentioned previously an extra Springfield model was slated for this effort back in 1997.
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Next the compresion ratio needed to be reduced to a point where flame ignition would work by making the necessary modifications to the crankshaft, piston and con rod.
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Next the drive shaft for the sideshaft had to be made and its associated bearings. These above steps were done in the beginning, and there the project sat in my basement a long time as a complete understanding of Otto's slide valve system was not in my head yet.
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Fast forward a decade and a half, having an original slide valve engine in my shop and spending a significant amount of time researched early engine designs, I realized that I could rekindle the long ago shelved project.

Step one. Sketch out a slide valve system that will still function with a flame pocket volume 25% of that of an original. ( a huge issue is the quenching properties of Hydrogen flames in small areas) For those who are not very familiar with slide valve engine. There is a period of time in the travel of the slide valve - just before ignition, when an internal flame it lit from the "Relight flame" and transported in a completely isolated environment ( pocket) to the combustion chamber with out blowing out or consuming all the oxygen in its space. It is tricky enough on a full size engine but when scaling something physically to 1/2 size, the internal volumes decrease by 75%, So in this test engine the flame must stay lit with only 25% of the available oxygen and not quench itself in the small confining spaces. Also to make this a little more complicated, there is a pressurization step where a bleed hole from the combustion chamber pressurizes the flame pocket ( with a mixture of air and gas) to the same pressure as inside the cylinder - this happens just a split second prior to the ignition flame pocket opening up to the combustion chamber
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The difficult part was to put this down on paper so it worked in my head prior to spending a lot of time making chips in the shop.

A view of one face of the slide valve: The Hen scratch:


The slide valve, its guide block and the cover all start out from a bar of fine grain cast iron.
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The rough machined cover and guide and doweled together to retain perfect orientation throughout the machining process.
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The guide is set up on the surface grinder to make all surfaces perfectly flat.
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Last edited by Wayne Grenning; 02-11-2013 at 07:44:09 AM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:19:46 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16



Using the sketches, a surface plate and height gage with carbide scribe the boundries of port shapes are marked on the slide guide.
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Here the combustion chamber opening and air inlet chambers are marked in the seating surface of the slide guide .
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The process again carried out for the slide valve itself ( once its shape has been machined to size and ground to have a perfect fit in the slide guide).
.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:28:00 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Another view of the slide:
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Next the guide is temporary attached to the cylinder and it is quickly determined that the original sideshaft bearings put on the engine 15 years ago will not be any near strong enough to the take the side loading from driving the slide valve.
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New much more substantial bearings are invented and made:
Also the drive arm and drive pin for the side shaft "doge bone" are made:

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Next machining commences on the slide valve itself. Much of the porting is challenging, especially with the tricks needed to pull this off at reduced scale. Here it is in the Bridgeport with the head skewed. Part of each port is machined from each side with them matching perfectly in the middle.
.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:35:41 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

The finished slide valve with the oil supply grooves.
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The inside face of the slide valve cover. Here you can see the relight flame ports and the supply groove that feeds the carrier flame in the slide valve. The length of these ports are extremely significant.
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Next I need to make the gas valve. The engine will not run without it. .
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It starts out as a piece of brass stock and a small 3/8" cast bronze globe valve available at the hardware store. The rotary valve and seat on the top section is added and contains a "V" type progressive opening.
.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:41:12 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

The finished valve:
.

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Other parts that I didn't think of taking photos of were also made:
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Slide valve dog bone
Fuel manifold for the ignition and relight flames
governor linkage in the hollow top drive auxiliary shaft
Spring leveling bars for slide valve cover, slide valve springs and studs
Slide Valve cover chimney and other bits
.
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Finished test engine.
.

.
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:20:46 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Wayne,
Thanks for the explanation about the relight flame, and the ignition flame being carried in a pocket to the place of combustion.
I now feel that I have a (very) basic understanding of how it works. It sounds like it's an extremely touchy thing to miniaturize.

I've always been fascinated by fire starting. I worked for 30 years off and on trying to produce fire by friction with a bow and spindle, but like yourself, I lacked a true understanding of all the nuances.

Furthermore, after I finally accomplished it, I was convinced that the old Boy Scout books I'd read were authored by folks who had never done it either. Otherwise they would have included the few bits of trivial information critical to success. Of course now excellent tutorials are available on youtube.

Here's an 11 second, high speed video of a transparent "FIRE PISTON" instantly igniting charcloth by heat of compression. Mr. Diesel would be proud, but Asians have used them since time immemorial for starting camp fires.
Of course I bought one, though a guy like you could build one in a snap. It would make a nice display/demo at engine shows!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se_y0lScb8o
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Old 02-11-2013, 10:39:27 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

All I can say is, A fine piece of art!
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:35:32 AM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Wayne,

I noticed that you used a larger curved spoke flywheel for this slide valve compared to the flywheel size you used for your Springfield models. Was is important to offer more inertia for smoother running, or would that not be as necessary?

Also, there appears to be a grove machined into the face of the flywheel. Was that important or helpful in some way?

It also appears that you have added balancing cheeks to the crank, but I can't tell for sure. Could you verify that and perhaps explain how you decided on the throw of the crank and size of balancing cheeks?

I would love to see more pictures of the top of this engine. It would be interesting to see how the plunger for fuel is actuated by the cross head. Hopefully you could also explain how you machined the metering valve guts. I am just so impressed and curious as to how you designed and implemented your vision.

Thank you for sharing this with us. Absolutely wonderful work! I really hope you might find room in your truck to bring it along to Coolspring in June.....
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:57:46 PM
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Default Re: 10 HP Schleicher Schumm Slide Valve Engine Restoration - Page 16

Travis, Your welcome. I will try to answer most of your questions:
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The project was meant to very loosely represent an Otto Slide valve in a way that would cover some of the significant design characteristic of the original. To be honest it has been a long time goal of mine to make reproductions of some early engines. Miniaturization of the slide was not too much problem as I did that back in 1990 with the first Otto Langen engines I built, however scaling a flame was the challenge. Although the main running gear has nothing to do with Otto the parts significant to the slide, fuel admission system and ignition are correct. I hope ( some time down the road) with the knowledge gained by building this test engine to apply it to some really significant reproductions.

The Flywheel: Two flywheels just didn't look correct and the near one was hanging out in space because of the extra long crankshaft needed for the side shaft bevel gears. Several years ago I bought a treadle power unit similar to this one:
.


Except the one I bought had 5 curved spoke flywheels and at the time was considering to use it on my Forest slide valve prototype engine. Well the Forest prototype engine was actually built with a production flywheel so needless to say it has been taking up space in my shop. It was actually slightly too large for this particular project but worked well. Now you know the reason for the center cut groove on the OD But yes, the larger inertia flywheel helps for smoother operation.
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In the video it looks like the crank has counter balance weights, not the case - its an optical illusion.
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The bronze gas admission valve has inside of it a conically tapered plug and poppet valve actuated by a cam on the top cross shaft. The gas flows into the top hand adjustable conical valve through the cam actuated poppet valve and exits out the side on the bottom.

Below are an exploded view and cross section of the valve used on the 10 HP Schleicher restoration. It is functionally identical. The top shaft of the engine is hallow and as the governor weights open the fuel admission cam slides toward or away from the poppet valve stem via a rod that is hidden inside of the hollowed out shaft .

.
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As far as how this vision became a reality. Once the slide valve issues were resolved and sketched out, everything else was just built on the fly
going directly from my head to the mill and lathe.

Were there mistakes? - absolutely. This is a prototype test engine, part of the fun of building such a gizmo are the dynamic flow of simultaneous upgrades and obstacles that must be overcome. - Wayne


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