Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Aluminum and steel?


this thread has 23 replies and has been viewed 3461 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-13-2010, 09:49:27 AM
Tom Winland's Avatar
Tom Winland Tom Winland is offline
Banner Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orient, Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Thanks: 1,728
Thanked 4,098 Times in 533 Posts
Thumbs down Aluminum and steel?

I'm trying to get a steel shaft the is meant to turn thru aluminum housing but sat outside for a couple years and now is stuck. What is the best way to loosen this up because I can't get it to move. Just so you know I'm working on a hit miss ice cream maker. Thanks for any help on this project because I'm trying to make ice cream this coming weekend.
__________________
Tom Winland
Ohio
http://gasenginetom.com
CHECK OUT MY ENGINE VIDEOS AT
http://www.youtube.com/user/gasenginetom
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-13-2010, 10:22:32 AM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England, UK
Posts: 1,288
Thanks: 652
Thanked 764 Times in 473 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

Hi, heat will loosen the housing. Aluminium has several times the rate of expansion of that of steel, if there is a build up corrosion inside then you will need to introduce some light oil while it is hot and work the shaft back and forth to break the grip of the oxides. Make sure that you clean the exposed part of the shaft well so that as the shaft pulls through it gets easier and easier. Aluminium has a relativley low melting point so be careful not to over do it, I always try an electric heat gun first but if that fails then the gas torch will show it who's the boss. Any process that involves fire is inherently dangerous so have a bucket of water handy to extinguish any accidental fires and wear eye protection.

Last edited by Roland Hayes; 09-13-2010 at 10:25:06 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Roland Hayes For This Post:
  #3  
Old 09-13-2010, 12:33:06 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Belpre, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,179
Thanks: 2,056
Thanked 4,388 Times in 1,155 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

Hey tom

heat the aluminum as roland said. As soon as you get the aluminum hot, spray it immediately with pb blaster. The heated aluminum will suck the pb blaster inside between the steel and the aluminum like, well it'll suck in right in anyway. Use vise grips on the shaft with a piece of thin rubber around the shaft in the vice grip jaws and try turning the shaft back and forth. Repeat as necessary until a loose fit is obtained. Sort of sounds like a good start for an x rated movie.

Rod
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rod Fielder For This Post:
  #4  
Old 09-13-2010, 12:47:08 PM
phabib phabib is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mountain View, California
Posts: 72
Thanks: 10
Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

My dad tells a story of his journeyman project when he was completing his apprenticeship as a mechanic. There was an old car that had been outside in the back lot of the garage for a long time and the owner of the place told him how it was his and he'd never had the time to finish getting it running and he'd like to get it going again and rebuilding the head would be the final task that he'd be judged on.

End of the story is after a few days of trying everything to get the aluminum head separated from the iron block where it had welded together by electrolisys and who knows what other mechanism, the apprentice got a lesson on dissimilar metals and the car was put back in storage for use with the next apprentice.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to phabib For This Post:
  #5  
Old 09-13-2010, 01:28:05 PM
Roland Hayes Roland Hayes is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cinderford, Gloucestershire, England, UK
Posts: 1,288
Thanks: 652
Thanked 764 Times in 473 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

Yeah, bin there done that, worn tee shirt and eaten the pork pie (a quaint English expression). My technique was to extract the head studs one at a time often by welding a big nut to the top of the stud for better purchase, until the head was released, this process usually involved a large consumption of oxy-acetylene gas and a great deal of cursing, foolishly I made a bit of a rep for myself as having a special technique for stubborn parts and many collegues in that line of work started bringing me their problems. It was the Mig. welding of a fairly big nut to the exposed end of the studs that really made this possible, a new set of studs and a lecture on the importance of glycol antifreeze to the owner and it was 'jobs a goodun'.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2010, 03:07:18 PM
BMiller's Avatar
BMiller BMiller is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Townville, South Carolina, USA
Posts: 851
Thanks: 1,016
Thanked 502 Times in 305 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

An older mechanic told me that one time he'd had to pull the aluminum head off an old (iron) straight-eight engine - they couldn't get it loose, so they just loosened the nuts on the studs and started the engine. It ran a few minutes and broke loose without damage.

Bill Miller
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2010, 03:53:33 PM
Trevor A Cole Trevor A Cole is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waitara, Taranaki, New Zealand
Posts: 243
Thanks: 405
Thanked 171 Times in 96 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

My mate chopped an aluminium head off a ford sidevalve V8 with an axe!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2010, 04:27:35 PM
VanS VanS is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hyde Park, NY
Posts: 27
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

I've had aluminum car wheels "adhere" to the steel hubs... Loosened all the lug nuts a few turns, drove around in a parking lot zig-zagging back and forth, and got them to all break free.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2010, 04:31:30 PM
C-Wade7 C-Wade7 is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Whitesboro, Texas USA
Posts: 803
Thanks: 349
Thanked 493 Times in 281 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel ?

Trevor,
Sounds like my kind of guy, I like to let this stuff know who is running the show sometimes, and thats one way to do it!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to C-Wade7 For This Post:
  #10  
Old 09-13-2010, 04:40:59 PM
Pete Nichols Pete Nichols is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clay Co., West Virginia
Posts: 484
Thanks: 724
Thanked 249 Times in 168 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Winland View Post
I'm trying to make ice cream this coming weekend.
Rod,
Wonder if Tom is talking about at the show ?????????

If he is we'll have to make sure that we get there early .

Pete
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Pete Nichols For This Post:
  #11  
Old 09-13-2010, 04:43:20 PM
Tom Winland's Avatar
Tom Winland Tom Winland is offline
Banner Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orient, Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Thanks: 1,728
Thanked 4,098 Times in 533 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

Pete,

actually that's why I'm trying to get it going in time for the show this weekend
__________________
Tom Winland
Ohio
http://gasenginetom.com
CHECK OUT MY ENGINE VIDEOS AT
http://www.youtube.com/user/gasenginetom
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-13-2010, 05:03:36 PM
Pete Nichols Pete Nichols is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clay Co., West Virginia
Posts: 484
Thanks: 724
Thanked 249 Times in 168 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

Tom,
I'll be there for sure !!!!!!

Pete
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-13-2010, 07:45:22 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Belpre, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,179
Thanks: 2,056
Thanked 4,388 Times in 1,155 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

Me and mccray will be there also
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-13-2010, 08:55:45 PM
Mike Monnier's Avatar
Mike Monnier Mike Monnier is offline
Hoarder
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Casstown, Ohio, USA
Posts: 2,610
Thanks: 4,976
Thanked 3,177 Times in 984 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

If the shaft is meant to be spinning in an aluminum housing, someone failed engineering 101. You need a bronze bearing in the housing to keep the aluminum from galling and welding itself to the shaft. I suppose the assumption is that you can get away with it for the short amount of time an ice cream freezer runs, but the bearing area better be flooded with oil.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-13-2010, 10:06:53 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: South Louisiana USA
Posts: 2,721
Thanks: 928
Thanked 3,566 Times in 1,117 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

When heating aluminum to aneal it you can soot it with acetylene and heat until the soot disappears. It would be safe to soot your tube if you're going to heat with a torch, you can't tell when aluminm is going to melt.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-14-2010, 12:05:07 AM
Daniel Dorece's Avatar
Daniel Dorece Daniel Dorece is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Kenosha,WI In the little house marked ROVER
Posts: 1,410
Thanks: 281
Thanked 747 Times in 231 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

A trick we used to use to free up the aluminum heads on Ford flatheads might work here. If you can find a piece of thin wall steel tubing with the I D the same as the O D of your shaft you can cut teeth in the end of the tube, slip it over the shaft and turn the tube by hand or with a drill and cut away the aluminum around the shaft. Then after the shaft is out bore the housing for a press fit for an oilite bronze bushing which should be in there anyway. We used steel bushings on the old Ford heads and even added steel bushings to the high performance aluminum finned heads till we finally got smart and started to use aircraft grade bolts instead of studs.

Iron Wolf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Daniel Dorece For This Post:
  #17  
Old 09-16-2010, 08:57:32 AM
Tom Winland's Avatar
Tom Winland Tom Winland is offline
Banner Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Orient, Ohio
Posts: 1,506
Thanks: 1,728
Thanked 4,098 Times in 533 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

Good news it's up and running and ready to try and make ice cream. My good friend Steve fixed it up for me. I'll let him chime in and tell his secrets if he wants to. Here's a video http://www.youtube.com/user/gasengin.../0/JRDLrWGMKWs
__________________
Tom Winland
Ohio
http://gasenginetom.com
CHECK OUT MY ENGINE VIDEOS AT
http://www.youtube.com/user/gasenginetom
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Tom Winland For This Post:
  #18  
Old 09-16-2010, 09:52:08 PM
Steve Holbrook Steve Holbrook is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ashville, Ohio USA
Posts: 114
Thanks: 50
Thanked 92 Times in 28 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

No secrets here. Just kept working on it till it freed up.
By the way, I do like Ice Cream!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Steve Holbrook For This Post:
  #19  
Old 09-16-2010, 11:22:00 PM
Randy Hart's Avatar
Randy Hart Randy Hart is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,228
Thanks: 1,255
Thanked 1,292 Times in 380 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

I went to Kidron today and picked up the mix, so it should be a go for ice cream

Now where did I put that hub cap from a 52 Buick Makes a good bowl,I like a lot of ice cream !
__________________
He who dies with the most STUFF wins!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Randy Hart For This Post:
  #20  
Old 09-17-2010, 12:11:02 PM
Steve Holbrook Steve Holbrook is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ashville, Ohio USA
Posts: 114
Thanks: 50
Thanked 92 Times in 28 Posts
Default Re: Aluminum and steel?

You guys makin' BEER ice cream?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Aluminum piston, aluminum cylinder? NAR Scale Model Engineering 9 03-11-2008 02:02:27 AM
Whaddya think? (steel wheels on a steel deck) MoRo Trucks, Trailers and Hauling for Shows 10 02-15-2008 05:53:33 PM
Freeing stuck steel and aluminum? FarmallIH Machine Shop and Tool Talk 4 12-07-2007 03:17:03 PM
Brass, bronze, steel and aluminum stock Sky Machine Shop and Tool Talk 2 08-27-2007 09:30:20 PM
Aluminum Vrs. Steel Steve Gerot Antique Engine Archives 5 05-09-2003 08:56:44 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:50:39 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277