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Maytag Engine Collectibles

Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?


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  #1  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:27:04 PM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Here are the basics:
Standard M92 long base with common exhaust. S/N indicates that it was made in 1929...but several collectors told me that it is a later model (mid 1930's). It had seen some hard use and had a 3 slot pulley attached to it, the crank shaft housing (right side) was cracked and bushings chipped and were quite loose.

I rebuilt the fuel controller using parts and tool from Fly Wheel, replaced the gaskets, and while it was apart I had it sandblasted to remove the accumulated piles of rust and chicken poop off of it (it was a barn find). The coil test at 9.5 using a ohm meter, I replaced the spark plug wire, gaped the points to .020, original plug to .025. The timing bolt is set at 1.200. I used a spark plug light tester and also held the plug against a ground, it has spark to the plug electrodes. It has really good compression compared to other 92's I cranked. Fuel is fresh and mixed 16:1. Crank shaft housing replaced (right side - flywheel side).

But, it won't start, won't cough, nothing, no nada. I'm thinking a fuel issue but even a shot of starting fluid into the cylinder or controller intake produces nothing?? Second thought is a bad plug just doesn't have enough spark (ordered an Autolite #3095).

These are such simple engines I thought it would go bang easily...thoughts??

Bill in OR
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  #2  
Old 09-20-2018, 09:34:21 PM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 long base - won't start??

Help! Any good ideas out there? Bump....
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2018, 09:16:44 AM
OrgWayne OrgWayne is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Welcome to the Stack , someone will be along to help out , I have a model 92 ,1927 that I need to get going also
Wayne
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:07:29 AM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Bill, let me pose a stupid question. The gasket between the cylinder and crankcase is to have a cut out spot for the gas to enter the intake port of the cylinder from the crank case. If you made your own gasket, did you cut out for that, or if you bought gaskets, did you get that gasket oriented correctly with the intake port on the cylinder. ???
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:29:06 AM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Thank you OrgWayne - good luck with your 1927!

---------- Post added at 08:29:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:22:21 AM ----------

Hello Pat Barrett. The only part of the engine that I did not disassemble was the jug / piston to crankcase. The compression seemed so good and others said that it did not need to come apart. So, in answer to your question (never a stupid question - LOL), it was and is in original condition.

The spark on the plug didn't seem as bright as other cars / motorcycles I've worked on, but, since this is my first Hit & Miss I didn't know what to expect. Fingers are crossed that the new plug might give it some life...what has been your experience?

Thx, Bill in OR
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:47:58 AM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

On these, and the twins, a good plug/plugs makes a world of diff. Looking forward to hear a report when you get it installed.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:24:38 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

The 92 is a single. the 72 is the twin. As fr the 92, did you replace the mixer gasket? It should have a hole in it to allow air from the mixer to enter the crankcase - about 3/4' in diameter. Also, a smaller hole near the base (about 3/16" for the de-flooder. Take a bottle of soapy water and soak the perimeter of the mixer, where it meets the block. Any bubbles when you kick over the engine? if so, you need to make sure the mixer is flat, where it meets the block. the gasket tends to compress over time, and if the mount screws are just tightened, the mixer warps, allowing air to leak. Do you have the lead washers under the heads of the mixer mount screws? Have you checked the fuel inlet screen and check valve? If the fuel check ball is stuck, or missing, the engine won't run. There is a brass poppett in the intake, under that large nut on the base of the mixer. Is it in good shape, and is the spring on it? Is there any carbon on the spark plug insulater, or is it wet with fuel? if so, it needs to be cleaned off. Heating with a propane torch helps sometimes, otherwise a replacement is in order. Last, have you checked the exhaust for carbon or obstructions? They can get jammed up with carbon or 'critter' debris. Take it off and heat with a torch and use a plumbers 3/4" copper pipe cleaning wire brush and screw driver to remove carbon. Last - is the fuel needle set properly? In the 'OFF position, (turned clockwise until it stops) it should stop with the pointer at the 3 O Clock position - about a 1/4" off the tank top. To start, turn 1/2 turn to the left (9 O Clock position. once the engine starts, the needle has to be set about the 12 O Clock position. There is no choke. if the engine does not start after 3 or 4 kicks, turn to OFF and kick over at least 10 times to clear the crankcase. these engines do flood easily. .Let us know how you make out.
Andrew
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:29:54 PM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Andrew, thank you so much! I've done about 3/4 of what you recommended. I'll go back and start from the top of your list and work down. Such a simple engine, I didn't expect to run into this... On the poppet, I replaced the internal parts, replaced the spring, poppet and mated the two surfaces. I also used the tool which came with the rebuild lit to reset the brass insert and also measured it to .75" below the base. I didn't like the looks of the paper washer on the fuel controller where it mates up to the crankcase, but when I called flywheel their mechanic said that there was no need to use a sealant (and he said not to use any silicon because of the gas eating it).

What surprised me was that even when I used starting fluid I did not get any response. I figured that even if there was NO spark it would have at least coughed a bit??

Thanks, Bill in OR
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:08:27 PM
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Thiel Thiel is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

just wanna throw in my 2 cents which almost made me to give away a 92 model because of all the aggravation. Depending how far you got regarding the points, I believe if you took them out completely or changed both fixed screw settings, finding the correct timing is finicky. It may spark, just not when it suppose to. It took some Mark Shuler convincing t get it straight. Starts 1st or 2nd kick. You can take the whole ignition plate off and send it to him in OH. He should be listed here under the sponsor section.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:13:32 PM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Thanks Thiel! I pulled the fly wheel and on the inside is, what appears to be, a brass ring / cup that the governor bolt touches for adjustment. I see that this part has several thin cracks? I'm not sure what it's function is but the fact that it is brass leads me to believe that it conducts current, am I correct??

Bill in OR
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Old 09-24-2018, 08:51:21 PM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

These are the before...and after pic's:






---------- Post added at 05:46:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:44:27 PM ----------



---------- Post added at 05:51:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:46:27 PM ----------

https://imgur.com/o6DLe9N
https://imgur.com/XZOsUBn
https://imgur.com/E3LoeKI
https://imgur.com/sulrLA5
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Old 10-01-2018, 06:30:41 PM
glholmes glholmes is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

@andrew mackey, I know I didn't ask the original question, but thank you so much for chiming in. I've been up a wall with my 92, unable to figure out why I couldn't get the thing to run. Turns out, my fuel check ball was stuck AND my needle valve was not seated properly. Starts and runs pretty decently after fixing both problems. I have copy/pasted your post and it will now reside in the shop with my manual for future troubleshooting.
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Old 10-01-2018, 07:08:02 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

As for the original post - have you checked the crankcase for air leaks? Take some soapy water and cover the carb flange where it meets the block. Also soap up the block where the starter is next to the block. kick the engine over. Any bubbles indicate air leaks. If by the starter, the crank bearing is leaking. If by the carb, the flange may be warped or the threads pulled put slightly on the block. Some emory and a flat surface will have the carb set, and a good file will cure the pulled threads. Do you have the lead washers under the carb mount screws? The brass assembly is the governor. it opens the points. Should open to .020". As engine speed increases, it pivots, and the points open less. Eventually, the points don't open, and the engine coasts until speed drops and the governor allows the points to open again. Besides making the engine coast, the smaller points opening as the engine gains speed, also advances the timing, giving more power. If the points are moved, it is virtually impossible to re-time unless you have the knowledge or experience to set them. Maytag 'timing tools' have been a scam for the most part. if you have doubts, remove the entire timing plate assembly and send it to mark. you won't be sorry!
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Old 10-02-2018, 09:36:04 AM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Thanks for the responses GL Holmes and Andrew Mackey!

I just finished the soapy water test, there were a few small bubbles on the left side of the carb when it mates up with the Crankcase. I do not have lead washers but I did find copper washers and when I tightened it down the bubbles stopped. On the bottom lip of the carb where it mates up with the gas tank it is not a tight fit and gas leaks out when the engine is tilted, like when I move it from the bench.

I have GREAT (!) spark now that I have changed plugs. I've isolated the problem to the carb itself. I did rebuild it, I'm going to dive back into that today.

I'm giving it the old college try again, if this fails off to Mark it goes,

Thank you, Bill in OR
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:29:17 AM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

I was excited it started...but, it started...ran for 15-30 seconds and died. Starts right up! Dies quickly. Probably 15+ times all the while: Playing with the Governor, Readjusting the fuel needle. Shot in some starting fluid...same results. It starts on the first kick....dies

New plug
Rebuilt "carb" - pulled it and reset the poppit. It is loose in the hole of the brass nut.
Checked the points at .020
Good compression
Great spark
New spark plug wire
Added rare earth magnets to the regular magnets.
and on....and on...

Looking for more guidance here.

Thx all,

Bill in OR
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:25:45 PM
Pat Barrett Pat Barrett is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Since we seem to be grasping at straws. Take the check valve apart, and turn the flapper disk over, 180 for it's present location. And try it.
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Old 10-20-2018, 10:22:49 AM
Huntkng Huntkng is offline
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

I am grasping at straws now. I pulled the flapper, pulled and reinstalled the brass (air valve and seat) in the "carb". All is correct there. I just ordered a new Air Cap Valve nut. I rechecked the point gap, governor, Plug gap...hummmm. Quite the challenge! It almost has to be a fuel issue. Next I'll order a new needle valve.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:31:39 AM
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Default Re: Maytag M92 Long Base - Won't Start?

Wooohoo, It starts on the first kick and runs well. Thanks all for walking me through this I learned a lot from you guys / gals. The final thing that I did which seemed to make a difference was changing out the Brass air vent valve nut on the bottom of the "carb" / fuel mixer. I had previously rebuild the fuel mixer and I noticed that the hole which holds the poppit stem was oversized and out of round. It was not letting the poppit shaft move up and down vertically and it must have been wobbling enough that it would not seat correctly all the time, hence some time it would start, run and then stop...repeat. A second contributing factor was the addition of several small rare earth magnets attached to the faces of the original magnets which significantly increased the magnetic pull and field.

Now that it is running my wife wants to know what the heck I plan of doing with it????

Bill in OR
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