Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines Fairbanks Morse, Lister, Petter, Witte and other pump injected Diesel oil engines.

Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines

Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem


this thread has 8 replies and has been viewed 609 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-05-2018, 06:44:56 PM
JAM JAM is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 31
Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts
Default Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

Hope this isn't too new of an engine to discuss here...

I picked up a Lombardini 6LD 260 recently as I have never work with a diesel of any type. It's in pretty good shape overall, and I was able to get it to fire on starting fluid. However, when I turn on the electronic fuel pump, it just pumps the fuel through the system and out the vent hose that comes off one of the barb on the injector. I suspect this vent was intended to vent air in the line, but not fuel. I've studied the images in the online service manual but can't find anything worthwhile that would explain it. Any suggestions?

Photo Album Link: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...UzNG5zaWpJYV9B

Last edited by JAM; 12-06-2018 at 12:05:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:53:03 PM
Tom Marshall Jr.'s Avatar
Tom Marshall Jr. Tom Marshall Jr. is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Beaver Falls, Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 523
Thanks: 308
Thanked 213 Times in 163 Posts
Images: 1
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

do you have a return line back to the tank ? the fuel pump pushes fuel threw the filters then injection pump and on back to the tank . the injector fitting is tied into the return line also so any dribbel from he injector also goes to the tank. the return line may go on your open port at the injector or if you have a return line to the tank you are just missing a cap at the extra port. Its been a while since I had one , if they do not use a return line then you are just missing a cap . Clean fuel under low pressure is delivered to the injection pump while it is running by the electric delivery pump .
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom Marshall Jr. For This Post:
  #3  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:03:42 PM
kwfiggatt kwfiggatt is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Charleston, West Virginia
Posts: 161
Thanks: 35
Thanked 57 Times in 43 Posts
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

I just looked at the workshop manual here --> manual

On page 41, it has a diagram of the fuel system, which shows the lift pump supplying fuel to the high pressure pump, then loops up to collect the fuel from the return fitting on the injector, then goes back to the tank. From your pics, it looks like this is how yours is plumbed up, which is correct.

You may just have air in the high pressure system, which is preventing it from starting. Try loosening the steel injector line at the injector, say 1/8 turn, and cranking the engine over on compression release with the lift pump running. You should have fuel dripping out of the threads of the fitting at the injector. If it has air in it, it may take a bit of cranking to get fuel to flow. Once you get fuel flowing without air bubbles from the injector fitting, tighten it back down.

Crank again on compression release and now you should hear the injector "grunt" as it squirts fuel. If you get the injector to grunt, you should be good to go.

If you can't get fuel at the injector, you may have either a stuck plunger in the injector pump, or an airlock with the delivery valve.

Let us know if you get fuel flowing out of the steel line, or not, and we can proceed from there...

Kevin

Last edited by kwfiggatt; 12-06-2018 at 01:33:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kwfiggatt For This Post:
  #4  
Old 12-06-2018, 01:40:28 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Beryl, Utah USA
Posts: 4,201
Thanks: 3,278
Thanked 4,359 Times in 1,833 Posts
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

Remove hose to injector, put in empty water bottle and crank. Fuel should spurt out. Run long enough to clear line of any grit. May need to dissasemble injector. Suspect may be clogged. You can download shop manual from my gdrive. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1p...w?usp=drivesdk (Sorry can't help with parts; sent extra to Eldon Durand.)
Doc
__________________
Beginning anew http://machinebuildersnetwork.com
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Thaumaturge For This Post:
  #5  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:34:59 AM
JAM JAM is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 31
Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

Thanks for the suggestions and help thus far. I bought this engine to learn about diesels, and the school of hard knocks is now in session! I have removed and disassembled all fuel components and have taken pics of all of them. The album link is below for you (and anyone else) to look at - perhaps it may help someone else as well.

All of the parts were surprisingly clean and nothing seems stuck or clogged - both in the injector and the pump. I am amazed at the complexity in the machined parts in this thing!

I'm pretty sure this engine used to power one of those flashing highway arrows just like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJtZlJHst8w, and when they scrapped it, the engine was forcefully removed and the return line was simply cut.

I agree that my fuel system was very similar to image 125 on page 41 in the manual. Do you think perhaps the return line was intended to actually pressurize the tank? When tested last night, it was probably pushing 1-2 quarts per minute through the line. That seems excessive, but in a closed system, it shouldn't hurt anything, and there doesn't seem to be anything to prevent it. There is one check-valve in the system, and it is on the pump in the fitting to which the "bleeding tube" is connected (#8 in diagram).

Pics from today: https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...hnMG1TcUpKR1R3
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:55:14 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Beryl, Utah USA
Posts: 4,201
Thanks: 3,278
Thanked 4,359 Times in 1,833 Posts
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

On my 6LD435 (on a surplus military generator) the fuel system is indeed closed loop. Fuel runs from tank to conventional automotive style mechanical pump (down lower on block) through a big spin on fuel filter, through solinoid shut off into injection pump (on hump on engine) up to injector (which is itself a pump) and hense to return line feeding back into tank.

Reason I suggested plugged injector was it sounded like fuel was getting to injector, but wasn't being injected. When I bought mine (actually 2 of them) the generators were just back from middle east. I flushed visible amounts of sand from injector lines. Even with oil filter type fuel filter preceding injector pump. The tolerances on that top injector are such that any grit (sand) will stop it fuctioning correctly.

Think if you just clean parts really well and reassemble your motor should run fine.
Doc
__________________
Beginning anew http://machinebuildersnetwork.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-07-2018, 07:03:30 AM
Oil Power Oil Power is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ocean Grove, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 148
Thanks: 245
Thanked 126 Times in 80 Posts
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

Jam. You have given us a great photographic record of your progress. I will suggest the following. In the attached photo I would think the hose coming down from the top will be from the feed pump to supply the injection pump. The second hose curving downwards to the left will be connected to the top of the injector and thence return to the tank. In most systems you would expect a restriction in the fitting at the injection pump to restrict the return flow and thus maintain some pressure at the pump inlet. The restriction could be a spring loaded valve or a small drilled orifice. This could be within the stud that has a long hexagon, or could be in the small banjo stud connecting the return hose. Check out these components as they could have been modified.
Hugh
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Lombardini _1028 copy.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	219.7 KB
ID:	324076  
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:00:39 AM
JAM JAM is offline
Registered-I
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 31
Thanks: 14
Thanked 9 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

I cleaned all the internal parts for both the injection pump and injector and reinstalled on the engine today. Then I rigged up a janky fuel tank using an old gas can and some hose barbs. I turned on the supply pump and saw that it was sending fuel through the system. I loosened the compression nut at the injector then turned the engine over several times until it started dripping from the union while holding the compression release level. Then I tightened it up and gave it a crank. It fired up on the first try and runs like new. I couldn't believe it.

Next I need to change the oil and all three filters (oil, air, fuel). Then I will be re-doing the wiring and getting a battery for it. With a good deep cycle battery and an inverter, this might even make a decent gen-set. Thoughts?

Below is video of the second run. I have the valve cover off because I wanted to see how well it was pumping oil to the top end. Looks good to me.

I'll make a better video and put it on youtube at some point, bu this will do for now:https://photos.app.goo.gl/dMPwbzHokr1ucChh6

Does anyone have part numbers or suggestions for compatible air/oil filters? This one has the round donut paper filter - looks like a Fram but made in Italy and Lombardini branded.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JAM For This Post:
  #9  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:22:06 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Beryl, Utah USA
Posts: 4,201
Thanks: 3,278
Thanked 4,359 Times in 1,833 Posts
Default Re: Lombardini 6LD 260 Fuel problem

I just took my old filters down to local NAPA parts counter and let counter guy figure out what would fit.
Doc
__________________
Beginning anew http://machinebuildersnetwork.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Fuel problem resolved armandh Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 0 07-03-2013 07:47:48 PM
Lombardini 12LD435-2/B1 Governor problem dannyboy Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion 7 01-23-2012 07:52:08 PM
LT fuel pump problem ourtribe5 Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines 7 08-09-2011 06:49:23 AM
Onan 2.8 fuel problem thunderblade Onan Generators 5 07-02-2011 02:46:14 PM
Source for Lombardini parts, need a fuel pump oilburnermike Vintage Diesel and Oil Engines 0 08-30-2009 05:27:37 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:44:07 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2016 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277