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Maytag Engine Collectibles

Maytag Oil Mix


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  #1  
Old 09-11-2009, 09:45:38 PM
Connor Hofford Connor Hofford is offline
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Default Maytag Oil Mix

Hi, what is the best amount of oil to add to one gallon of gas on a Maytag? It's been so long since I mixed the gas that I forgot the mix.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:13:15 PM
Walter Neumann jr Walter Neumann jr is offline
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Default Re: maytag oil mix

The best thing I found is this syringe for mixing 2 cycle gas and you can mix a pint, a liter, a gallon and the mixes are marked on the side. I mix 16 to 1 for my Maytag with non detergent straight 30 oil. I found outboard motor oil or 2cycl oil doesn't work as well in the old engines.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:18:24 PM
smgussey smgussey is offline
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Default Re: maytag oil mix

8 ounces of oil to one gallon of gas = 16:1 ratio.
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Old 09-12-2009, 12:29:35 AM
Mark Shulaw Mark Shulaw is offline
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Default Re: maytag oil mix

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Originally Posted by walter neumann jr View Post
.i mix 16 to 1 for my maytag with non deturgant straight 30 oil.i found outboard motor oil or 2cycl oil doesnt work as wellin the old engines.
I do not use anything but outboard boat motor oil and have "never" had a problem. Been mixing for Maytags for 25 years with outboard boat motor lubes of various brands. What problems have you experienced?
Did you use a Premix two stroke oil by mistake? If so Premix oils are designed for modern 2 strokes that use needle bearings for crank and main bearings. They will cause havoc in the old engines like the Maytag which are referred to by the oil company engineers as babbitt bearing engines despite their not being any babbitt bearings per say. Any old two stroke engine with solid bronze bushings for bearings is classified as a babbitt bearing engine. This I learned 25 years ago from the engineers of (BP) British Petroleum, Sohio at the time. I also spoke with the oil engineers of Pennzoil later and got the same information from them. I have had more then the average bears fair share of Maytag engines in my life and have never had lubrication problems in my Maytags. In numerous cases when a fellow calls me with problems with their engine many times I can trace the problem to improper oils and lube mix ratios. There is a common misconception that the old 16 to 1 ratio is obsolete with the new modern lubricants. But nothing is further from the truth. Just today I had a fellow call with running problems with his engine. After the usual questions it was revealed he was mixing at a 32 to 1ratio using 30W detergent. After the other usual suspect problems were eliminated and the previous oil type and ratio revealed I convinced him to go get Out board 2 stroke and mix it 16 to 1 and two hours later I got a call back that all was well and the problems had disappeared. There is a chance that if he had mixed the 30W to 16 to 1 it would have been fine too. But this goes to show you have to stay with 16 to 1 for the best chances of success. Mark

Last edited by Mark Shulaw; 09-12-2009 at 04:57:31 PM.
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Old 09-16-2009, 01:26:58 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: maytag oil mix

The problem with outboard oil is that it is made for engines that are water cooled. It vaporizes and burns away at a much lower temperature than oil made for air cooled engines. Outboard oil will eventually gum up the rings, and cause scuffing on the cylinder wall, especially if you load the engine. typically, the Maytag single will reach about 400 degrees F, and the twins about 600, at the internal cylinder wall. outer wall and cooling fins, about 250-300 for the singles, and 300-350 for the twins. The maximum internal cylinder temp for a water cooled engine is in the area of 200, or less, depending on water flow! Use of detergent oils in a two stroke provides 2 problems: One, it will loosen any varnish or dirt in the crankcase, and will send it into the bearings and the piston walls, and two, when burnt, it leaves ash and combustion deposits that are erosive - it is like throwing a handful of sand into the engine! Also, marine oil is usually cut with mineral spirits. This thins the oil, and makes it break down and mix with the gas easier, so that it causes less water pollution. You need a heavy oil to seal and lubricate the soft bronze bearings the Maytag has
Andrew

By the way, 16:1 ratio equals 1 cup oil to 1 gallon fuel. Running a Maytag at 32:1 is asking for conrod and main bearing failure, due to lack of lubrication. It will probably cause piston scuffing in the twins, due to the throttle governed nature instead of the hit & miss of the singles. Also the twins use aluminum pistons, which expand more when heated. Last but not least, you probably will loose the crankshaft sealing effect of the oil, especially if you use the modern stuff.
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:33:32 AM
Mark Shulaw Mark Shulaw is offline
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Default Re: maytag oil mix

Keep in mind that ALL Maytags are not the same. More on that later. And neither are two cycle oils. Not on my watch has the brands of two cycle outboard lube ever gummed rings on any of my engines, especially if the engine is timed properly, more on that later. Been using two cycle outboard for 20 years or better on many engines. But I am rather strict on Using only BP Nitrex Land and Sea or Pennzoil Two stroke Outboard lube. I don't just grab any old two cycle oil. The fact that Marine two cycle oil burns away at lower temps is exactly why we want to use it, and for good reason. Otherwise you have increased instances of plug fouling and oil drooling out the exhaust pipe. Especially a Maytag being run as a demonstration at a show which are typically run without a load. The typical two cycle lubes of today for chain saws and weed eaters and the like are designed as you say for the air cooled engines of today which run at a much higher temp then does most of the Maytags. I can not prove it but I believe the running temps of a Maytag as you have quoted seem to me a bit on the high side. Unless the engines that were measured to get those temps were out of time. Which is typical of many Maytags today, especially the single cylinders. May I ask where you got those temp figures? Not criticizing just curious. Many single cylinder engines being run today are out of time so they are running hot. Another part of the difficulty we encounter today, 99% of the Maytags out there are being run without a load as its just a static runner. So the engine that are set up properly runs much cooler then it should unless they are out of time. So the oil recomendation has to be catered to the typical demands put to the engine "today". A typical Maytag properly set up and timed running without load will run so cool I can touch the cylinder for brief moments, so if they were achieving the temps quoted earlier I would get burned instantly. With a good Name Brand Outboard Two Cycle we can also use it for the engine under load. Do not use the pre mix outboard which is the type cut with mineral spirits or the like. My oil recomendation for today is a compromise. But the best compromise that I have been able to come on to after seeing the results of other oil uses over a 30 year span, and after at length discussions with the engineers of oil companies like BP and Pennzoil.
Mark PS: I may have commited a few errors in wording as I wrote this in just a few minutes as I am in a hurry to get to a show. So clarification may need to be made. Mark

Last edited by Mark Shulaw; 09-16-2009 at 10:33:59 AM.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:50:58 PM
Walter Neumann jr Walter Neumann jr is offline
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Default Re: maytag oil mix

all i know is i switched to 30 w non deturgantoil wal mart brand,not picking any company,because i read a thread on here about 2cycle vs 30 oil.i said whats the difference to.dont know unless you try,so i tried it wasnt goin to kill me.mix it 16\1.use this fancy suringe which allows me to mix a cup at a time.i noticed a big difference to the good as far as maytag goes so with older engines i will admit so far 30 oil is the way to go
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:57:36 PM
smgussey smgussey is offline
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Default Re: maytag oil mix

Could we get a moderator to sticky this? Maytag oil discussion comes up several times a year and we could just keep it in one thread...

As I said in another thread:
I had my 92 at the county fair today. Not one single complaint about noise, smoke, or anything. Not one!

I ran it for 8 hours straight, about two hours with no muffler on it. It ran on 16:1 mix with the oil being 1/2 SAE 30 non-detergent and 1/2 modern 2-cycle premix oil. It smoked plenty... and I had no problems.
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:08:53 PM
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Russell M Russell M is offline
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

I was just at a show in Brookville with my model 92 on a model 31 washer using two stroke oil at 16:1 and nearly had a dead engine. It was running fine, then when it warmed up it quit smoking a lot and started to get real hot so I shut it off. We ended up mixing a new batch with 30 weight and had no problems with it running almost all day. I don't know if I had the premix oil as stated earlier, which could cause problems or what, but from now on it's 30 weight non-detergent for me.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:09:39 PM
Connor Hofford Connor Hofford is offline
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

i have been using 30wt non-detergent ace hardware oil in my 72 twin.i have not had one problem yet.i just had my 72 at the west lampeter fair in PA and ran it every day.didnt smoke much and i didnt have a muffler the hole time.no one complaned at all. every time i would start it people would look at it right away.it was the only maytag there.all of the other moters at this fair were hitt and miss so this engine was very different from the others.
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Old 10-14-2009, 01:52:31 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Maytag oil mix

Now days, especially with the crappy E-10 alcoholized gas, our engines need all the lube they can get. The SAE 30 has a heavier body than the premix lubes out there, and provides a better crank seal.

Mark, I used a thermal image camera to get the external temps. Temps will vary due to load as well. With a 92 type single loaded to the point of firing constantly, and the mixture leaned to the point where the engine didn't double stroke now and then, I actually got the cylinder temp up to over 550 degrees F! As the engine ran during this extreme condition, numerous bits of red hot carbon were expelled out the exhaust, the engine virtually stopped smoking, It was run loaded in this manner for about 15 minutes, without trouble. A piece of paper placed on the cylinder, burst into flame almost instantly! After the loaded running was completed, the engine was allowed to run as normal, in a hit & miss condition, in order to cool down, for about 5 minutes. The engine was then shut down and the spark plug removed for inspection. The insulater was clean and a very light tan, the black carbon deposits completely removed. A look inside the cylinder with a fiber optic bore scope, revealed a clean shiny cylinder with no scoring, and only a few spots of carbon at the head end of the cylinder. The transfer port was clear as well as was the exhaust port. The engine has excellent compression, and has not been rebuilt, to my knowledge.
Andrew
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:51:08 AM
economypowerkingfan economypowerkingfan is offline
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

i just thought of something call me dumb if you want but i have expirenced it and ive heard this a few times. what time of year are you running these engines in? Because when it is cold out the oil will seperate from the fuel so maybe that is why 30w is better in certain climates and outboards are better in others just a thought let me know what you guys think
thanks
alex
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:34:08 AM
smgussey smgussey is offline
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

I believe it has been discussed before that the oil will in fact separate from the fuel over time... and it has been recommended that you mix fresh fuel and oil each time you run the engine (if it is a long time between runs).

If it has been a while, I mix some fresh fuel/oil for mine and pour whatever was left in the tank in with it and shake it up some more. Since mine only sees occasional runs I have been using the Coleman fuel with good results.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:58:19 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Maytag oil mix

It is now highly recommended by major 2 cycle manufacturers, that high grade fuel be used, and fuel be removed from the engine after 30 days. The crap E-10 fuel degrades rapidly in small containers, and the alcohol degrades plastic and rubber fuel system componants. The federal government is NOT monitering the amount of alcohol in supposed E-10, and as much as 27% alcohol has been found locally! Stihl now has a fuel test kit given to their warrenty shops. If fuel degradation is present, or more than 10% alky is found, Warrenty is void. It is then up to the customer to go after the station for selling 'watered down gas', which means the state DOT must test the fuel in the tank to see if it meets standards. If fuel is sub-standard, then the machine owner can sue the fuel dealer for damages. Lots of luck winning an amount to cover your loss!. Some manufacturers are marketing pre-mix fuel with a built in stabilizer. This stuff is OK for modern engines with hardened surfaces, but is not appropiate for soft bearing engines like Maytag, Fairmont, early Jacobsen, and any engine NOT using roller bearing cranks and mains, as well as chromed cylinders and rings. Also, any machine built before the mid 1980s will be susecptable to fuel system degradation due to the effect of alcohol on both rubber(neoprene), and plastic parts. Many engines using plastic fuel tanks are now facing problems with tank failure do to E-10. Ny son has just completed a Stihl factory work session, that specifically went over fuel system problems. This included destroying several engines, using mis mixed and old fuel in the saws. 30 day old fuel destroyed an engine after 4 tankfuls(about 50 minutes working time!) 45 day old fuel only lasted 3 tanks! One saw was run on straight high test gas - no oil. it ran for 5 tankfuls, and quit for lack of lubrication. After it cooled off, everyone was surprised when it again started and ran some more. proper mix fuel was put in the tank, and though it did not have the power of a new saw, it still performed well! It shows what engineering and modern materials will do. Degraded fuel turned corrosive, and degraded the neoprene seals and gaskets rapidly, as well as damaging piston surfaces and rings.

Andrew

Last edited by Andrew Mackey; 01-14-2010 at 11:09:39 AM. Reason: additional info
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:02:16 PM
economypowerkingfan economypowerkingfan is offline
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

so what fuel should be used on old engines should i use led additive like you have to for some old tractors to not burn it up?
alex
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:01:31 AM
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

When I got my little 72 twin running a couple years ago I mixed up a gallon of pump gas (87) and 8 oz. of ND 30 wt. oil and I was a happy guy at our display. It ran forever..........On the next batch I thought I'd be smart and use 2 stroke chain saw oil at 16 to 1. By the end of the day I was having problems with heat and I noticed moisture at the crank seals.

I have since gone back to 30 wt. ND oil at 16 to 1 and the engine runs cooler and no bubbling at the seals.....so that's where I'm staying

My three cents,

Bruce
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Old 06-21-2010, 05:54:42 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Maytag oil mix

Lead additive not necessary for a Maytag. The Tetraethyl lead was an anti knock additive for 4 cycle engines, and the lead also lubricated the valve stems and heads. The 'leaded gas' was not used by the public until after WWII (military used it first). Gas today uses sulfur (source of 'acid rain').

Andrew
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Old 06-22-2010, 12:22:34 AM
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

I use Non Detergent 30wt, old style oil for an old style engine.
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:50:21 AM
Mark Shulaw Mark Shulaw is offline
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Default Re: Maytag oil mix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mackey View Post
Now days, especially with the crappy E-10 alcoholized gas, our engines need all the lube they can get. The SAE 30 has a heavier body than the premix lubes out there, and provides a better crank seal.
Andrew,
As I said,,, I do not use or recommend the use of "PREMIX" two cycle oils. Its not good, do not brand all two cycles oils with a bad name since you had a bad experience when using the wrong two stroke oil. I use plain old two cycle outboard ashless boat motor oil. I am going to play with Mercury Quick Silver and test it since I found out Nitrex Land and Sea is no longer available. This was not known to me till recently as I had plenty of old stock to use till recently. My stock pile began to run out and I tried to get more. Mark
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:57:58 PM
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Exclamation Re: Maytag Oil Mix

The federal government has forced the oil manufacturers to alter additives for 2 stroke engine oils. That may be why your Nitrex oil is no longer available. The Fed is trying to totally phase out all 2 cycle engines by 2013. Most major manufacturers are fighting this requirement for chainsaws, as the high power low weight ratio is not yet available. Small low power 2 cycle engines are already being phased out for sealed crank bearinged 4 stroke engines. Honda, Huskverna and Echo already have these mini 4 strokes either on line already, or nearly ready to be released. The biggest issue now, is not the 4 stroke technology, its carburetion (air pollution concerns), and the effect of crap E-10 fuel on the fuel system - especially the fuel tanks! As an added note: the Fed is planning to make regular fuel contain 20% alky by 2012. Think you have problems now with crap E-10? Just wait until that garbage fuel comes out! As I stated earlier - the fed is NOT monitering the amount of crap alcohol going into the gas. My other son's shop has found up to 27% alcohol in chain saw fuel tanks, and that is supposed to be E-10. If the gas suppliers are allowed to sell E-20 (gas-a-hol) as 'regular', how much watering down may we then encounter 50% ???

Mark, let us know how you make out with the Quick Silver lubricant. I know it is used in modern roller/ball bearing marine engines @ ratios of 50 to 100:1. I have not seen it used in a 16:1 ratio oiled engine, with plain bearings. The Quick Silver Marine my son uses in his mercury outboard looks and smells like it is cut with mineral spirits. It is not an injector type oil. It is quite thin coming out of the can. The cans he has also do not list a ratio below 40:1 on the can.

Andrew
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