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Ross Naylor's Advance Model


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  #21  
Old 05-14-2019, 05:33:56 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Once I got the little Advance home, I did a hydro test and it didn't leak a drop, so I built a fire. As soon as things warmed up, the tubes started leaking at the front tube sheet. Once it got about 10 psi on it, the leaks went away. I ran it up to about 75 psi and tried everything out, injectors etc and all went well. I tried it again a week later and the same thing happened. Leaks at the front tube sheet and once a little pressure developed they went away. Upon subsequent investigation the following day, I found that 11 or the 14 tubes are brass! I would like to know when and why this happened. It was during the 25 plus years after Ross sold it. At any rate, the leakers were all the brass ones, so I ordered a new set of proper steel boiler tubes and am preparing to remove the old ones this week.

I have never heard of using brass tubes on a boiler of this size. Maybe on a little table top model, but not on something this big. The Brits have used copper on full sized engines with great success, but also at great monetary expense. I can only imagine it was in need of flues and they just happened to have some brass tubing laying around. And why replace 11 out of 14? As tight as working space is on this model (firebox is only 15" deep) you would think they would replace everything once they had it torn apart.

I'll let you know how difficult or easy the tube removal was after I get them out. I would think brass would tend to crack easily while being rolled and beaded. They must have had to anneal them first as I would think the rolling and beading would work harden them pretty quickly.
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  #22  
Old 05-19-2019, 08:59:54 AM
Casemaker Casemaker is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Sam,
Melt those brass tubes down and recreate the missing famous brass chain. Things like this happen for a reason.

Some engines just belong in certain places....now Ross's engine has found that place. The little princess model seemed little it just belonged with Steve.
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2019, 03:19:08 PM
Steve Dunn Steve Dunn is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Shublom View Post
Here are a couple of photos from the late 1980's or early 90's of it pulling at Mount Pleasant.
I remember seeing that engine at Mt Pleasant. That was when I was going there to help Roy Larson with his double Keck and the Gaar Scott.
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  #24  
Old 06-02-2019, 06:05:07 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

I had a some time to work on the little Advance model today, so decided to get started removing the tubes. This is sort of like painting a house is as much as the prep time takes as much or more than the actual painting. At any rate, I had David and Chris Jowett order me a new set of tubes and when I went over to their shop in nearby Odessa MO, I quickly came to the conclusion they were much better equipped to put them in than I, so I left the new tubes there and told them I would strip the old ones out and trailer the engine down to them for the retube job.

I removed the grates, ashpan, smokebox door and smoke stack and then set about a plan to turn it on its side so as to get access to the firebox end of the tubes. I really think this is the easiest way to do this as the small fire door, ten inch clearance from the floor to the mudring and the 12" x 15" firebox make any other approach nearly impossible.

And this method has some precedence. Attached is a photo (not a particularly good one) of this same engine on its side having a tube replaced on the show grounds at Mount Pleasant in 1976.

So by the aid of two chain falls, I lifted one wheel and used the other to keep the opposite wheel stable as it went up and over. I dreaded this whole operation but had it on its side in about twenty minutes after I started to work on it.

Now on to the tube removal!
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Last edited by Sam Shublom; 06-03-2019 at 03:29:22 PM.
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  #25  
Old 06-02-2019, 08:25:05 PM
Daniel L. Carruthers Daniel L. Carruthers is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

You were probably more careful in putting the engine on the side than Ross ever was.....
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  #26  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:07:44 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel L. Carruthers View Post
You were probably more careful in putting the engine on the side than Ross ever was.....
Probably so, but I was working alone and trying to prevent an obituary that started with the line, "Here's what we think happened..." I inched it up on one side, stopped and let some slack on the other. Back and forth like that until it was resting on its side. Hopefully the uprighting will just be the reverse of this operation.

I had forgotten how absolutely filthy this flue work is. I took a long shower and then took another one to clean up what I missed the first time. I am beat and going to bed!
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  #27  
Old 06-03-2019, 01:16:19 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

One out and 13 to go.
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2019, 03:32:15 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Well, after quite a battle, I managed to get all of the brass tubes removed from the boiler. They couldn't be cut off and allowed to drop down inside the boiler barrel because there was no hand hole in the tube sheet from which you could fish them out of. There was a 3/4" clean out plug at the bottom, but as the tubes were 1-1/2" it meant they all had to come out through their respective holes in the front tube (flue) sheet. So I went about it as follows.

I ground the beads off flush with the tube sheet on the firebox end. Next using a long cold chisel, I collapsed the bead on the smokebox end. With the smokestack removed and working through the smokestack hole and from the front opening of the smokebox with the door removed, about the most I could collapse was 30% of the circumference of each tube. That was enough to release it, however. Then I made up a fixture, or dolly, with a 1/2" hole through it that fit closely to the inside diameter of the tube. It had a shoulder with a slight concave edge to it that was slightly smaller than the O.D. of the tube. The dolly was inserted in the firebox end of the particular tube I was working on.

Next a piece of 1/2" all-thread inserted through the tube on the smokebox end, and on through the hole in the dolly on the firebox end. A nut was screwed on the firebox end of the all thread and then using a piece 2" pipe on the other end, I formed a puller which I could draw down with a wrench and put the whole thing under tension. The shoulder of the concave on the dolly bit into the ground off end of the tube in the firebox. It would move only so far and required some well place blows with a hammer on the firebox end in order to gain more ground. I sacrificed an old socket to protect the end of the all-thread and beat against it. I repeated this, back and forth, a half a dozed times for each tube and eventually it released enabling it to be pulled through the tube hole. A lot of getting up and down for an old fat guy.

The problem was not the part that was rolled against the tube, but rather the area on the inside of both tube sheets. The brass was so soft when it was rolled in, it bulged out behind the sheets making the tube larger in diameter than the hole. It was a hard pull to get them out but they eventually all surrendered. Attached are some photos of the process.

Once I had the brass tubes out (there were still three steel ones to go) I hauled it to David Jowett's shop in Odessa, MO. He is going to remove the remaining steel tubes and then roll in a new set for me.

If I ever build a boiler, it will have a clean out plug in the front tube sheet large enough to get the tubes through it. You could burn them off with a torch and let them all fall to the bottom of the boiler barrel. Then, after fishing them out through the clean out, you could heat the burnt off bead ends with a rosebud and knock them out with a cold chisel.
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Last edited by Sam Shublom; 07-02-2019 at 04:56:21 PM.
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  #29  
Old 07-01-2019, 12:51:12 PM
Casemaker Casemaker is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Sam,
Wonder if Chris could take out the 3/4 cleanout plug and put in a larger one ?
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  #30  
Old 07-01-2019, 01:35:50 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

I don't really think there is enough room. But you might be able to sacrifice one of the tubes, drill out the hole and tap it for a 2" clean out plug, then weld in a steel disc to plug the hole on the firebox end. Another way would be to put a plug in the upper left side of the tube sheet (looking at it through the smokebox door) as seen in the red circle on the photo. That might be the best way to go as you are probably going to have to have the engine laying down on the flywheel side in order to get to the tubes on the firebox end when you are working on it. The plug hole would then be on the "bottom" when you cut the tubes off and they dropped down.

If I build a boiler it will have a lot more clean outs and as big as I can make them, 2" tubes, a bigger firebox door and a deeper firebox.
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  #31  
Old 07-01-2019, 02:20:42 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Here are a couple of pics that show what I was up against. The first one shows the smoke box end of the tube and the collapsed bead. As you can see, the area that was rolled against the tube sheet pulled out with very little resistance as evidenced by the lack of scrape marks. Right behind it however, the tube was bulged out from the rolling process and as the bright scrape marks show, it fought the fight for about 3/4" until it pulled free. In the second photo you can see I had the same problem getting the other end out. But with it pulled out of the smokebox end, I had about 3' of tube to use as a lever and wallowed it back and forth until it came loose.
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Last edited by Sam Shublom; 07-02-2019 at 12:48:34 PM.
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  #32  
Old 08-05-2019, 04:16:37 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

I picked up the little Advance from Dave and Chris Jowett's shop in Odessa, MO today. They installed a new set of flues and did a beautiful job. The beads look too pretty to get covered in soot. Now I have a lot of work ahead of me in the upcoming 4 days. I would like to take the engine to the Platte County Steam and Gas Engine Show on Saturday the 10th of August. In order to do that, I have to reinstall the smokestack, smokebox door, grates, ashpan, cleanout plugs, blowdown valve, governor, etc., etc. A lot to get done in a short amount of time. I would really like to get it together as the PC show was home base for this engine years ago and it would be it's first appearance there in over 25 years.
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Last edited by Sam Shublom; 08-09-2019 at 02:39:12 PM.
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  #33  
Old 08-09-2019, 11:04:41 AM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Well, after a good four days of solid work, in between still working on the railroad, I managed to get the little Advance put back together and had a shake down steaming this morning. No real problems and I think I will be able to take it to the Platte County Steam Show tomorrow morning. Ross aways had a little trouble holding the front end of this engine down, so he came up with a big block of steel that he bolted down in front of the smokestack. We jokingly referred to this as "the tombstone" as it was sort of shaped like one. He had it plastered with various exhibitor tags from the various shows he frequented. All of those were gone when I got the engine, but the tombstone was still there. I added this brass plaque to it. I thought about taking it to a trophy shop and having it engraved, but decided to stamp it by hand. It looks a little more home made and cobbled up.... more like something he would have done himself.
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  #34  
Old 08-09-2019, 11:09:45 AM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

He used to have a sign on the coal box advertising his garage. I found a picture of it that I had taken at the McLouth Kansas show back in 1976. I blew it up and grainy as it was, the local sign shop made a pretty good reproduction of it.
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Last edited by Sam Shublom; 08-09-2019 at 02:25:41 PM.
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  #35  
Old 08-09-2019, 04:15:15 PM
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Steve Kunz Steve Kunz is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

[QUOTE=Sam Shublom; Ross aways had a little trouble holding the front end of this engine down, so he came up with a big block of steel that he bolted down in front of the smokestack. [/QUOTE]

Sam, your model is looking good! My little Harrison model is light on the front end also. It has some thick steel plates tacked together inside the front of the smoke box. You can see them in this picture, I have it apart doing some work and repainting.
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  #36  
Old 08-10-2019, 06:06:36 PM
Casemaker Casemaker is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

I sure hope these engines make it to Mt Pleasant. That would be a treat.
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  #37  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:15:39 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

Took Naylor's engine to the Platte County Show on Saturday and couldn't believe the reception I got from numerous old Platte County residents who remembered both Ross and the engine. One of the first guys who came up to me was a man named Davy Bryan who gave me a photograph of him, when he was a little boy, riding on the water tank down Main Street in Platte City during a parade in 1972. I took an updated version at about the same camera angel. I couldn't keep track of all the Naylor stories. It was a good day even if I did have to go to work at 2:30 that afternoon. The engine got a reception like a long lost friend.
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  #38  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:21:21 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

There were five model engines at this year's show and all of them were Platte County built engines. Here is a photo of the lineup. They are from left to right - 1/2 size 16 HP Russell built by Tom Turnbull, 1/2 size 22 HP Advance also built by Tom Turnbull, 1/2 size Advance-Rumely Universal built by Tim Turnbull, 2/5 16 HP Advance built by Ross Naylor and a 1/2 size Advance built by John Rickel. All lived within 15 miles of Platte City, MO.
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Last edited by Sam Shublom; 08-12-2019 at 04:44:59 PM.
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  #39  
Old 08-14-2019, 02:26:24 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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Default Re: Ross Naylor's Advance Model

I am planning to take Naylor's engine to Mount Pleasant at the end of the month. This will be the first time it has been there in about 25 years and I have been busy getting ready.

I never really liked the cylinder cock arrangement on this engine and have replaced it with something that looks a little more "Advance-ish." The simplicity of the single cock arrangement was something I always admired on Advance engines and I have often wondered why other manufacturers didn't adopt it. Attached are before and after pics of the modification.
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Last edited by Sam Shublom; 08-14-2019 at 03:03:08 PM.
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  #40  
Old 08-15-2019, 12:54:42 PM
Sam Shublom Sam Shublom is offline
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I had a couple of brass nameplates cast at Cattail and they arrived in the mail Saturday. Got them mounted on the smokebox this morning.
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