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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Treloar Restoration


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  #1  
Old 03-22-2019, 05:35:16 AM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Treloar Restoration

This engine has just found its way onto the bench. I have finished the latest batch or engines and now have started on the next lot. two are Diesels and two are more Internationals. All require quite a lot of parts to be made or repaired. The Treloar also requires parts.

The Treloar is a New Zealand made engine and is uncommon with possibly about five hundred made from 1925 until 1929. This one is S/n 53. There could be as few as twenty in captivity.

The engine design is simple and unusual with the distinguishing feature of two big rocker arms driven directly off the internal camshaft.

If there is interest I will describe and photograph the restoration and provide more information as I go along.

Merv.

[IMG]

Merv Cloake, on Flickr
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:45:42 AM
FarmallPaul FarmallPaul is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Wow Merv- That's a neat one. Gotta love those rocker arms!! Show us more! Can't wait to see it run!!
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:35:40 PM
Gary Bahre Gary Bahre is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Yes keep us updated on your project. What repairs you have to make with photos and a video of the finished engine. Gary
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Old 03-22-2019, 04:40:33 PM
NalanZ NalanZ is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

I have finished the latest batch or engines and now have started on the next lot.
Gee Merv, sounds like you have a production/restoration line going!! You will probably have a trailer load (or two) to take to Wheels at Wanaka! ( send them over with Steve & Logan)
Just for interest for the rest of you guys on the forum, we are having a Car,Truck, Vintage Machinery Rally at Easter, here is a link http://www.wheelsatwanaka.co.nz
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  #5  
Old 03-23-2019, 04:03:36 AM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Alan, Unfortunately I will not be in Wanaka at Easter. we have family turning up on Good Friday from the North Island and Western Australia. There is an outside chance that the boys and I could be there on the Sunday.

I started on the Treloar today. I started with the head. The piston was free, but no compression. With the cylinder off first glance indicates the bore is in very good condition. the rings look good and are free. The valves came out with a little difficulty, but then I was surprised to find the exhaust passage was almost completely blocked with carbon and had set like concrete. It was a good two hour job to get it all out by converting a long needle punch into a chisel and chipping it all out. The valves and seats are in very good condition but I will re seat and grind them.

so far it all looks good and the only thing missing is the Magneto, mounting bracket and the governor linkage. I have the carburetor and that will be a challenge to get it working. It is made of brass but the iron internals have rusted badly and seized up the butterfly, choke will all have to be remade. I am thinking I will have to try brick acid to try to dissolve the rust.

I had though the carburetor was made in house and was surprised to find that was made in the USA Does anyone know this carburetor?

Merv



[IMG]DSCF5255 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCF5256 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCF5257 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:53:56 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Over the last few days I have taken the engine apart and started to clean it up.
Normally if there is no chance of saving paint and transfers I will use electrolysis or caustic soda and boiling water followed by pressure washing. On this occasion there was a layer of old oil and dust all over it. I thought there would be original paint on it so I used degreaser and pressure washing. I was disappointed to find almost no original paint.

The castings on this engine are very high quality, very smooth and very few imperfections.

I have a bench right in one the doorways where I can use the fork lift to handle the engines being worked on. I can't get the fork lift in the workshop. This works well for me

[IMG]DSCF5261 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCF5261 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 03-30-2019, 04:43:30 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

I now have a plan of action to work on this engine. As There is almost no paint on it the decision has been made to paint it. So far I have wire brushed all the parts with the angle grinder and primed with a CRC product that neutralize the rust that was on it and acts as a primer.

The engine is in good condition and will not need much mechanical restoration. Next Saturday at a friends workshop we will grind the valves and measure the bore, meanwhile the rest of the engine will be painted and assembled except for the cylinder.

The crankshaft is unusual in that it is tapered from the big end down to the nut that holds the flywheel on. There are a large woodruff keys that hold the flywheels. the main bearings are cups lined with white metal. I think they can be adjusted to compensate for wear

The issues I will have are, I don't have the magneto and mounting bracket or the mag drive. being an early engine I think it will have a flick magneto. I have one that hope will adapt. The other issue will be the carburetor, that will be difficult to restore to working order and a replacement will be next impossible.

Here are photos of the crankshaft and piston.

Merv

[IMG]DSCF5267 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCF5269 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 04-05-2019, 03:44:13 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

To day I am off to my friends place to do a few jobs in his workshop and grind the valves. In the mean time I have made the wooden base. quite a long time age I gave up trying to find wheels for my engines so if if I don't make replica skids I make a base like the one in the photo. They are all forklift compatible so when they go to a rally they are secured on to one of the carts I have. I have four of these carts and that is enough for the rally needs.

This one is made from one of our native timbers, Rimu. The Rimu is no longer milled but I have a large stock of recycled Rimu that I use for furniture and I made all my house joinery with it.

Merv.

[IMG]DSCF5271 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 04-07-2019, 12:02:36 AM
Duey C Duey C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Very interesting engine Merv!
I hope you don't mind (shoot me later if you'd like), I posted four of your pics and asked the question about your carby to the Model T Ford Club of America website.
These guys are genius at identifying oddities like the carb on your Treloar.
For a Minnesota (US) guy like me, the valves and rockers look a lot like the Minneapolis Moline Z (RE) engines in their attempt to simplify things inside an engine.
https://www.modeltfordclubofamerica....hp?f=16&t=2786
Hope you don't mind and I'll let you know IF they have anything plus you can watch there too if you wish.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:44:46 AM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

[QUOTE=Duey C;
I hope you don't mind (shoot me later if you'd like), I posted four of your pics and asked the question about your carby to the Model T Ford Club of America website.

Thanks for that. It will be interesting what they come up with.
Yesterday, we managed to get it apart, but all the internals will have to be replaced, there is enough recovered to be able to copy and the rest we can work out what we need.

Merv.
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Old 04-07-2019, 01:39:46 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Got it Merv! A Sunderman.
See this thread for more. http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/29/24455.html
A 2007 model T thread.
Looks like perhaps the adjusto for the spring is broken off your carb.
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  #12  
Old 04-07-2019, 05:25:55 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Duey, that is great stuff thanks for the heads up.
The research I had already done by going through the "Papers Past" website I had found an article that said the carburetor was made by the " Bunderman" Corporation of NY. I got nowhere investigating that lead and that led me to a company that manufactured medical equipment. It must have been a miss print in the original article.

There is a lot on google on the Sunderman. Thanks Harry for the platform for the ability to find out stuff.

It does look like the carburetor was modified to suit the engine the spring on the top has been replaced with a manual control lever.

Another Treloar is going to be dropped off next week so I will get photos of the complete carby and I will be able to copy the magneto setup and mounting bracket.

Merv.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:45:01 AM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

I have done more on the Treloar. The bore was found to be in perfect condition so was given a light hone and even the valves were in great condition. My cobber Graham tidied the valves on the lathe Then lapped them in. It all looked good. He still has the carburetor and is making the parts for it.

I have two flick magnetos, a Thompson and Bennett and a Bosch 22. Both are left hand, I need a right handed one. Yesterday I cleaned them up Both have a good spark. I found I could convert to right hand by turning the cam upside down. I will use the Bosch 22 as the Thompson and Bennett would require a slight modification that I don't want to do. the only drawback with the cam upside down is lubricating the bush as the cam is part of the end plate. It will do until I can find the correct cam. The 22 is missing the end cover and has a broken high tension outlet, I think I can make both parts.


Meanwhile I mounted the engine on the base I made and assembled it. unfortunately the inlet valve didn't seal. Today another mechanic friend arrived with his valve grinding gear and we re seated the valves. Once assembled again the compression is perfect.

Next I will make a tank stand and the tanks. In an early photo both the fuel and cooling tank look to be square.

I am still researching and have found stuff not previously known. Now knowing the Make of the carby was a big breakthrough and a help for the restoration of it.

Here is a photo of where I am at now.

Merv

[IMG]DSCF5274 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:06:32 AM
Walky22 Walky22 is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Hi Merv. Just read through your thread on this resto. A good read. I'm hopeing to pick up one this weekend and restore it. It's in bits and missing a few parts. Hopefully i can find the parts I need. Main part so far that is missing is the conrod. Look forward to following your r esto. Cheers.
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:29:02 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walky22 View Post
Hi Merv. Just read through your thread on this resto. A good read. I'm hopeing to pick up one this weekend and restore it. It's in bits and missing a few parts. Hopefully i can find the parts I need. Main part so far that is missing is the conrod. Look forward to following your r esto. Cheers.
Are you a member of VERA I know there are three or four in that club and Rodger Walton has a parts one along with another. My research has uncovered more information and I have talked to Rodger about some of that. There is more to be found out yet.

The con rod may not be too hard to make. I had a look at mine . The bottom is a tee that is attached to the bearing I couldn't see the top one , The one mentioned in an earlier post arrived yesterday. I started on the tank stand.

Merv
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Old 04-18-2019, 05:49:48 PM
Walky22 Walky22 is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Hi Merv. Tried sending you an email but saying your inbox has been exceeded in storage space. What's your email address that I can reply to. Thanks
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:25:47 AM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

I haven't done much on the Treloar over the last two weeks, The other engine arrived a while ago, so over the last two days I have copied the Magneto platform and fitted the new one on the engine. It looks the part.
I am aware that when the magneto goes on I will have to make sure that it is earthed properly.
I also started building the tank stand. It is almost ready to attache to the base. That will be done as time permits.

Here are the photos.

Merv

[IMG]DSCF5281 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCF5282 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 05-13-2019, 05:29:49 AM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Some more progress has been made on the Treloar. After the mag platform
was finished I rigged up the governor linkage. I made it the same as the engine I had here. I did wonder why why it wasn't a one piece linkage. It is made in three pieces. The engine speed is supposed to easily adjusted while running but the 20 mm piece in the middle of the linkage had right hand threads at both ends so it could be only used to correctly adjust the linkage

On the flywheel there are two patent engine numbers, one is the governor patent number. I will come to these numbers in a later post, but the story is, there are no springs in the governor, and the 20mm part of the linkage is actually the counter weight to make the governor work. the little arm attached to the butterfly with the small sliding weight is actually the speed control. All this became apparent when it was assembled. I will demonstrate it when it is running in a video.

Today I finished the tank stands and have started making the fuel tank. I will post photos when I take them

I have been doing a lot of research into the Treloar and have found out some interesting stuff Some not previously known. For an engine production of less than five hundred there are a surprising number of surviving engines probably between twenty five and thirty with the known serial numbers as low as #4 and the highest so far #408.

To be continued.

Merv

[IMG]DSCF5286 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]DSCF5292 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 05-26-2019, 05:09:28 PM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Things are a little quiet at the moment but I have found the time to finish the tank stands and fit then and have started on the tanks, an original photo shows how they are set up. The photo attached is of the Treloar milking plant dated 1923. the tank looks to be square which is easy enough for me to make except my home made bender it to be too light for the material I am using which is heavier than what I would use for a round one because of the vibration. I do have access to a proper bender But I haven't had the time yet.

There are two patent numbers on the flywheels. one is the governor that James Treloar patented and the other is supposed to be for the "Vaporizer" This turned out to be incorrect. It was actually turned out to be for their milking machine pulsater. A search through the NZ patent records found the correct Patent. It was for an insert that also held the spark plug and is designed so the engine can also run on distillate. My engine does not have that but does have two fingers under the spark plug that is supposed to do the same thing.

Researching has also found that the engine was introduced in June 1917, much earlier that previously thought



DSCF5275 (2) by Merv Cloake,

[IMG]DSCF5293 by Merv Cloake, on Flickr[/IMG]
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:42:30 PM
Walky22 Walky22 is offline
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Default Re: Treloar Restoration

Looking really nice Merv. Keep up the good work
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