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1940 Ford Sidevalve V8


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  #1  
Old 05-18-2019, 02:22:28 AM
David Appleton David Appleton is offline
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Default 1940 Ford Sidevalve V8

Hi all,
I’m hoping that someone can help me with the problem a good friend has with his 1940’s truck,

The engine is a Ford 21 stud head, 221 cubic inch, V8, running a stromberg 97 carb.

The problem we have is that the left hand bank gets extremely hot very quickly, to the extent that it has scorched the paint on the head.
The right hand side runs normal temperature.

So far we have replaced both water pumps, and drive belt,
Reconditioned the radiator.
The heads have both been skimmed,and new gaskets,
Valves have been ground in and tappets set, all valves lift the same height.
The exhaust is clear with no restrictions.
There are no gasses in the water nor steam from the exhaust ,
Ignition timeing is correct to the book,
All the water ways are clear, and it has new radiator hoses,

The engine has been running fine for years, then all of a sudden it started to overheat, but only one side,
When the heads where off we checked for cracks etc ,
Compression is with in a few pounds of each other,

To give you an idea how hot it gets , you can’t put your hand on the head within a few seconds of starting.

Can anybody help?
Thank you very much in advance,
David.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:30:00 AM
garybtaylor garybtaylor is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

does it have dual exhaust// if so it might be an exhaust or muffler restriction. just a thought

---------- Post added at 07:30:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:27:12 AM ----------

sorry i did not see that had already been covered

gbt
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:26:08 AM
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Fred Van Hook Fred Van Hook is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

Stuck thermostat on that side? If it has dual exhaust still need to check the muffler..
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:32:05 AM
BHoward BHoward is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

Wish I could help. I have owned lots of those cars years ago and never had that problem. Got my licence with a 40 Ford in 1947 .There is an exhaust passage that runs from one side to other through the centre head I think but I don't think that would be the problem. Keep us informed. Bill in Canada.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:50:24 AM
Heins Heins is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

I think they run a water pump for each bank, check the water pump for the bank that gets hot. The impeller may not be turning.
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Old 05-18-2019, 09:39:38 AM
CharlieB CharlieB is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

"To give you an idea how hot it gets , you can’t put your hand on the head within a few seconds of starting."

Sure sounds like zero water flow.
Bad thermostat?
Can test it in a pan of water on the stove.
Have had brand new ones NG right out of the box.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:27:05 AM
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

Remove the top hose at the upper radiator and see if the water circulates on the side that gets hot. It may not even be getting any water in it if it burns the paint. If there was water in there it would be turning to steam if it gets that hot!
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:53:55 PM
Monsonmotors Monsonmotors is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

I guess my first question is how does it run before the overheat event?
Are you running aluminum heads? Or iron heads?
In my car repair world we see blown headgaskets just about every day. It’s a true epidemic. The best way to check for that is with a infra-Red gas analyzer held over the radiator opening.
A vacuum gauge that never goes into deep vacuum after revving is s sign of plugged exhaust. We’ve had to disconnect the head pipe and roll a marble in to find the collapsed inner pipe. Some exhausts are double-walled, you know.
The instant overheat certainly sounds like zero water flow.
We’ve had a too-liberal dose of stop leak cause that. Either the radiator repair guy or the engine rebuilder will load it up.
Good luck!
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Old 05-18-2019, 02:29:15 PM
David Appleton David Appleton is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford sidevalve v8

Hi Bill,
I will most certainly post my findings,
Thank you,
David
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:01:39 AM
eddie bedwell eddie bedwell is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Sidevalve V8

Hi Team,
these engines are basically two separate 4 cylinder engines in one block, the correct radiator is basically split too.
Has this problem been since the rad was rebuilt ? Maybe on one side a water connection to the upper/lower tanks is closed off causing no water to go into that bank--air lock basically.
Sounds like there is no water at all getting into the head/block on that side.
I suggest to remove and test the thermostat and see what you get.
As a test only with the thermostat out, get a suitable sized welsh plug and drill a 5/8" hole in and fit it into the top radiator hose, secure with a hose clamp--was an old trick taught to me by a Ford mechanic who did his time in a desert area--engines would run cool from then on--also did this with my rebuilt wreck of a show engine but used 3/8" holes and had good temperatures with no load.
I would also check the radiator hoses for a bubble between the inner and outer skins--had an engine that would run OK until the T/stat opened then would overheat--bubble in the lower hose would expand and block the lower rad. hose.
By the time the hoses were removed for checking the bubble retracted--only found when the hose was immersed in hot water.
Burning head paint is sign of no water in the head.
With no water in the oil it seems unlikely you have a blown head gasket or holed/rusted thru head or block

Also I did not have access to the factory distributor set up fixture. After much searching I found a method of using 2 6" rulers and the scribed lines on the distributor cap mating surface to set the distributor points by in an emergency in the field in a Canadian Military Pattern Vehicle Maintenance Manual.
Link below shows this method.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...str-timing.htm

Engine idles so slow you can watch the fan belts go by and almost read the makers name.

Good luck and we all will be eager to find out the outcome.
Cheers,
Eddie B.
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Old 05-19-2019, 12:42:20 AM
Monsonmotors Monsonmotors is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Sidevalve V8

The “water in the oil” diagnostic is not the best for blown headgaskets. At least not for more modern engines. Like I said, at my shop we average several blown headgasket diagnoses a week, all without any water in the oil.
The best test to confirm a blown headgasket is to use a four or five-gas exhaust analyzer and put the probe over the radiator cap opening during various modes of engine operation. Period.
There is no better way to diagnose exhaust emissions in the coolant. Time to move forward in time a few steps.
The fact that the analyzer may or may not be readily available is besides the point. Exhaust analyzers are commonly used in emissions testing and repair. Even shops not involved in emissions repair may have one to aid in driveability diagnosis.
In contrast, the well-known “Blok Chek” blown headgasket checking device that sucks radiator gases through a liquid to see if it changes color is VERY primitive.
You are going to have to go along with me on this. I do more head gasket checks in 3 months than most mechanics do in a lifetime. One summer we diagnosed 70 separate positive (bad) cases.
Furthermore, if you use statistics and calculate the number of different gases and liquids present at the cylinder head (coolant in the oil, oil in the coolant, exhaust in the coolant, etc) you can come up with at least 6 “blown” categories. However, only the exhaust in the coolant will cause a rapidly overheating engine.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:59:24 AM
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FWurth FWurth is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Sidevalve V8

With the description presented, If that engine had any water in that side and got hot enough to burn the paint off the head, you would have steam blowing off like a steam engine. There's no water getting in that side, the head is running dry.
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Old 05-25-2019, 03:09:14 PM
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John Hamilton John Hamilton is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Sidevalve V8

Make sure the water passages from the block to the head are not covered by part of the gasket. There were different gaskets sometimes and yours may be blocking a passage.
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Old 05-26-2019, 12:28:02 AM
D Reachard D Reachard is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Sidevalve V8

It might be that the head gasket got put in reversed. This could be checked with a heat gun to see if the back cylinders get hot before the front two.
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Old 05-26-2019, 01:56:37 AM
edisondiamond edisondiamond is offline
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Default Re: 1940 Ford Sidevalve V8

Just a heads up, Fordbarn.com has a pretty darn good forum for the V8's. There are a number of members from your side of the pond as well as NZ and Australia.
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