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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"


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  #41  
Old 09-05-2018, 12:32:58 AM
Duey C Duey C is offline
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Hmmm, it seems the most prevalent comment about the Holley's is "idle circuit"
That's been bouncing around in my noggin lately. Have you guys tried adding an adjustable idle circuit? I'd ALMOST hate to drill and tap that pretty brass THING but an idle circuit could be added. It works in my brain anyway...

Careful Adam, that Marvel just might stay for awhile when I get him dialed in!
Your right, I do need to make a longer throttle lever for it. I am enjoying my time with the Wheeler right now. My work friend commented on the gas slopping out when choking it! Hehehe! We don't see that when we have everything all closed up and correct.

With that said, would you point me in the direction of a photo of an M3? carb?
Mental block.... I got up and walked away... Stromberg!

Well shoot. I went looking for that Holley mixer to shoot a pic to post for future noodling (no, we don't have Catfish up here) and once again realized I can't find my you know what with both hands sometimes. Can't find it. Already! What's it been, 3 weeks?

Great comments!

Oh! How do you guys keep the magneto end caps (interrupter housing cover) from clocking under the arm? I can think of a couple ways but...
My ground out didn't work. Try again.

---------- Post added at 10:32:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17:58 PM ----------

How on Earth do we get the transmission brake to work better/wonderful? Can it be done?
I thought Grey Twin worked fine but the Rusty Twin has had me scrambling just a couple times. Darn hill.
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  #42  
Old 09-05-2018, 11:29:57 AM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Seems like those brakes are for holding the belt tight only, im sure they could be refaced and adjusted but I haven't had mine apart to look at it, works okay loading and such but we are flatlanders here and miles to shut down in most cases. Lugs on the wheels help slow yer roll.
The Marvel/Shebler on my 17-28 performed so well, I hesitate to change over to the Stromberg just to have a brass carb on it, but I will try it this fall and if it starts and runs as good it will stay. The Stromberg has a needle and seat that I don't trust yet, the float is good. It will see the test bench before it ever sees the tractor, mine has pretty good compression and im down in the joints. The mag problem you have with the ground im not sure I understand, I think you are saying the cap turns when you advance/retard and it grounds out against the mounting strap. On mine the ground post is clocked down and in away from the mounting strap, ive never had it ground out or move independently but as I had the mag professionally redone I have to confess I never really looked at that.
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  #43  
Old 09-05-2018, 09:17:16 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Hey Russ, do you happen to know the model of your Marvel/Shebler?
I have the TSX-704 and have done just a very little searching on the net for its intended application.
What's "and im down in the joints." ?? I'm down in the joints too but for me it means my muscles and joints hurt like the dickens.

You are quite right, the cap turns when I advance/retard the timing.
I wish it would ground out against the little nub in the bottom, even if I need to hold the cap and move the lever to full retard. I need to try the other cap to be sure all is correct.
On both of these mags here, as the material ages, I believe it's getting thinner. The cap on the Grey Twin stayed in place real nice for some time after resurrection and a cardboard gasket in the very early 90's. As they age just the tip of the arm holds the cap in place so they turn.

Another question: Are you guys putting anything on the red mag parts to slow the decay other than to keep them indoors?
They're tough as nails but in another hundred years the little caps will be in trouble.
One of mine has been cracked for a long time already.

On another subject, here's a pic of the offending appliance, the sometimes maligned Holley/Twin City vaporizer. I say it that way as there's a TW 877 part number on the end casting for the vaporizer coil sandwiched between the brass at the carb. I'd wager most of you knew that already.
Oh look ma, no idle circuit...
Like the Six Million Dollar Man; WE have the technology to fix him. A couple of holes, some fittin's, an adjusto and a piece of pipe and presto! An idle circuit!
I know I'm over simplifying. Or am I?
Mark, I can't find your info on your Holley. I need to see your trials again and am gone lookin'.
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  #44  
Old 09-06-2018, 12:50:11 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

This initial look at your Holley shows it to be in better condition than the one on my Twin City. Someone has shunted the vaporizer tube...mine still had the heating coil inside the exhaust manifold and as Tony has shared in a previous post all that preheat is detrimental if using straight gasoline for fuel. The small orifice on the top of the float is connected with 3/8 pipe fittings to the pushrod chamber on the front set of cylinders...kind of a prehistoric PCV setup. However it did supply preheated air that lifted the gas out of the float bowl and into the vaporizer tube.
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  #45  
Old 09-06-2018, 09:25:44 AM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Its a Schebler model T, I also tried to find out what it used to fit and couldn't find much information but I think it came from a truck as it has an accelerator pump/plunger direct connected to the throttle linkage. I found when I go to start it I can prime by cycling the throttle a couple of times. Bought this carb at an auction some years ago, before I bought the tractor, it was bargain basement price at the end of the carbs and nobody wanted it.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:44:16 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Not a Marvel just Schrebler. Common KTA ,U,till 1941. Some had breather on back. U had till mid 1939. Later Marvel Schrebler TSX67 replaced in 41.
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  #47  
Old 09-06-2018, 08:08:29 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Aha! That was something I saw in a pic last night but couldn't see it clearly enough or believe the mixer is gathering warm air from the engine for the adjuster!
I think I found your thread Mark but I'm all caught up in repairs to the input pinion shaft right now. Great stuff to read again!
That hole to feed warm air to the fuel adjuster is a smooth bore but I'd bet a piece of 3/8 fits right in there.
Hahaha! I still feel the same way Russ! Thank for the pics! As I get older, I just use one arm in the air as if a conductor giving thanks to the beautiful music the orchestra of parts an old engine can make!
I thought oh! that carb is really close to the one I have for my old 37 Universal M basket case somewhere!
gb, that was cool information and makes sense! If my memory serves me the M and K being built right along with the new U in 39.
Meant for a 283 but just open it up a bit for the 340! Ya? Any thoughts on the TSX-704?
Very cool guys. Thank you.
I pulled the hood and valve cover back off the Grey Twin today. Had the hood still loose after I checked the valves a few weeks ago. Had to run to town for oil to pour over the rockers and push-rods to slop the lifters down with oil for when he's ready to go...
Best dang wealth of info in the old tractor world can be found right here if you're willing to read! I'm gonna say this too. For the ubiquitous model T Ford, go to the mtfca site and get a wealth too with good people!
Got a gallon of oil, hmm on sale & pretty good price. Went home and put air in the mower tires for maw so she could mow. Got that running and all ready for her so (I joked with her) "she could feel like a race car driver and just hop in and drive" and went back to town for more oil! It's on sale you nulnk-head! I picked up 4 more gallons of Rotella 10-30 so I can change the crankcase oil. When done, she left the mower running like I had asked so it cooled down properly. Awww.
A few weeks ago my son had told me, dad lets change the oil before we get it running so it has fresh, clean oil when it starts. Wha? Oh man! Great idea!
The same thing I find you guys telling the rest of us!
I used a half gallon of oil on the top of the head. Mmmm, the lifters are sopping wet, the tubes that carry the rockers have been FILLED to check the oiling holes.
Catch me? We need to fill the oilers, drop tubes and rocker tubes completely to be certain for a spring start-up, let's say, so we KNOW there is oil that high in the tubes to flow over onto the ends of the push-rods. It takes time to displace the air in those rocker tubes. it takes time. I sure ain't trying to preach but I don't remember IF I realized that 30 years ago when I was putting the Grey Twin's engine back together... I was 26 and didn't know a fraction of what I need to learn yet in life.
I'll try the vacuum gauge on the 300-6 at work. Do those tranny modulators leak when put in gear?
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Old 09-06-2018, 08:39:06 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

How's this for a junky scene? i was in my chair outside and baloney-ing with maw today.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:32:05 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Promise: Last babble. Today. Sorry.
With the pressure from the spring arm on the cap, the interrupter housing sticks like glue.
Without the cap, it flops all over the place. Gotta work on that foolishness.
I traded the caps around and the cap from Grey Twin 038 works and killed the mag on 068. Reset it and one pull thru (Click) and running again.
Cut up an amazon box of the daughter's, left here, that the grandson's and I set up for a remote control car jump and then BB gun target practice so I could cover the rad. I can still smell and feel the warms from the engine.
At the parts store twice today, did I think about the aluminum flex tube for some warm air for the throttle necks project? Nope.
I'm such a dope. IF it starts and runs readily? It's good. I always strive for every beat perfect but goll Duane.
Let it go. Rusty Twin runs so blame nice.
Have more reading to do tonight.
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Old 09-07-2018, 12:22:31 AM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Crap. Posting again. Staples in the carb plates. Very common as suggested before. The Holley NH's were mostly stapled for the model T Ford IF I have my head on square.
I happen to run an odd-ball Ford made NH (on my 1919) with stapled plates just like the Holley Brothers used.
I'm just into your foray into the Vapo-Rub Holley on your 17-28.
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Old 09-10-2018, 01:36:16 AM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Question if I may: You fellas that have brought a Universal M (MT or MTA) home ever taken the rims OFF to roll it onto a "regular" sized trailer had success with that? These are oddly wide like an F-20 I think.
Been measuring things here and found the son's trailer deck width is 83-1/2".
Found the inside distance of the cast disc wheels on the 37 MTA basket case here is 73".
Am I thinking too simply in thinking the new to me, late 39 MTA, without the rear rims, will roll up backwards on the trailer without a hitch?

The rear rims and tires could be tied down under the MTA perhaps. One under and the other in the pickup box etc...
We ALL involved here have been grinding this and other scenarios thru our heads as to the easiest method to get this almost very late 39 MTA down here.
A three hour trip. I need to recheck all measurements of course.

The 2nd production, 3 speed 21-32 will pretty-much be cake. Roll him in and set him where the truck's happy.
Son wants to keep the rubber on the back of the 21-32 as it is now. Guess why. The tractor had been fully converted in its past. He'll get steel back on his front.
For tractor pulls. The later FTA's will run him over but that's cool too. It'd be fun if he's up to the task. The 21-32 that is.
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Old 09-10-2018, 09:50:29 AM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

IF, the seller or pickup location has a tractor with a loader or loader of some kind, forklift, etc. I have lifted the front of the tractor, backed the trailer under it and lifted then the back and drove under it. For the last couple of weeks I have been picking up a set of Farmall parts tractors without wheels and that's how we have been doing it, matter of fact we hauled two f-12s on one trailer that way. The seller had a tractor/loader and I have same at home, I have an aluminum floor on my trailer so they slide good, otherwise we put plywood under the front or rears to assist sliding on the trailer. Likewise when we used to load tractors that wouldn't roll we slid them on plywood.
I built a special trailer out of a swather trailer some years ago for the Farmalls, it has a walking beam suspension and is pretty wide so it is mostly a short distance hauler and our show is only 7 miles from our place. Also works well for hauling our 91 combine around.
I also sometimes unhook my trailer, let it down at the front and ramp wide tractors on from the front, same process for unloading. Some day I will have hydraulic jacks to put on the front for this.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:47:53 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Neat trailers Russ. That zig-zag little trailer is super neat! Ooh. Nice Clark.
It got busy as all get out here tonight so I didn't re-measure anything.
I also forget about the tricycle front end on the MTA. Son's trailer has just 2 ramps and nothing for the middle but there's a real nice ditch/ driveway for loading. Perhaps even a monster for pulling a tractor up. Lifting available from a little ways away if need be.

Son has a couple of F-20's to come home/back home here and I like the thought of pulling the rims/tires off and doing some sliding when it's that time if they fit on an 83-1/2" deck without rims.

Might have big news (for me and my messed up little world here) tomorrow. We'll see how our respective mornings go.
Getting excited again. Actually a good diversion from worrying about the show coming up this weekend.
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:59:36 AM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

You know Duey, excitement for me involving tractors usually costs me some.

The third ramp for me was always kind of a three ring circus until I welded hooks for a center ramp. Until then we would finally place a plank against the trailer with a block under it so the ramp was deck height, that eliminated some of the thrill show until we finally welded the receiver hooks on. The plank was always over thick when it worked, under thick or doubled up when it didn't. I found that pine didn't make good ramps or firewood for that matter, even though in the loading process you could make firewood size pieces pretty easily.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:24:12 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

I use a carry along white oak set of ramps. 1 inch thick or 2 inch thick. Support anything i haul. Yes even small TC's.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:38:26 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

That was pretty funny Russ!
Ainít it the truth! Boards usually never cut the mustard and are never quite right. Hehehe, sometimes steel ramps are like ice skates too. Yikes!
Adam, I like your thoughts about ďboardsĒ!

Had a good guy (Adam) show up here today, he brought along a real decent 1929 21-32. It has its issues but I see the potential not the foibles. Here are some particulars if interested:
#150304 unit number. Kinda cool.
Block casting FE1H.
Engine #104XXX. The June 1st 1929 parts book says engine numbers 100485 and up... Help me understand? Does the book include ALL FE engines including all the earlier?
Head castings FE7G.
Cylinder castings GE1, 3-44 casting date. Whatís the bore on these G cylinders?
My son was real happy to hear that!

Well now, I wonder WHEN my verizon POS samsung phone will send me the rest of the pics I sent to my email??? Two weeks like usual? Ugh. Perhaps they want me to use the phone itself to post here. Not with that little keyboard.
I like this full sized lap keyboard! :-)
Maybe itís geemail itself. Some subversive content or such it may think...
Oh yeah, fiercely independent people doing what we want. :-)

This delivery meant the world to me. Thank you Adam!
Iíve wanted to get close to a 21-32. What a brute. The transmission is almost 5 inches wider and an inch longer than the 17-28Ďs! I havenít even checked the depth/height yet.
That engine is a brute too. 3-1/2 feet tall? Glad the son said ď21-32 dadĒ. Bah, he just wants to borrow a puller with rubber on the rear... :-) Hahaha! I should find steel for the rear just to mess with him!
Hey, are these like working on a model T Ford? If the nuts and bolts arenít completely destroyed, they come right apart! I clamped my little #5 Peterson Vise Grip on the wing nut on the air cleaner and wiggled it just a bit. It was ready and after a couple wiggles and turns, I twisted it the rest of the way with my gloved fingers and my hands are shot!

1. No wonder I want to bring home the cast-off hand powered hydraulic pumps from work.
Adam checks the leak-down rates and floods the bearings with pumped-in oil after checking/cleaning oil galleys/gallerys! Smart cookie!
2. Well looky here. After the muffler rotted off they welded what looks like a model T drive shaft torque tube on what was left of it to get the mighty roar up in the air some.
The muffler base is right above the piece of 2-1/2ď? pipe thatís screwed into the manifold.
Oh. I didnít see the muffler on the parts book cover. Neat.
3. Maw, yep I think we CAN move this back where YOU want it before it comes up the hill.
Just give me a nudge or two. That woman has a fantastic sense of humor sometimes!
4. Love that upper water manifold! Had a heck of a time trying to get a good shot of it.
Plus a teaser of the Donaldson air cleaner. Have more of that beauty! Itís really nice. Dumb phone.
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Old 09-12-2018, 08:40:15 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Some pics. I wonder if a dog or cat knows its getting its picture taken. I can never get a pic of that goofy cat. The camera's are too slow nowadays.
Hah! My luck there are thousands of these Donaldson air cleaners out there ready for use and it's a Bennett air cleaner that's odd as all get-out. Shoot, they're all rare now.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:12:43 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Even the element is very nice! I got real lucky plus Adam left it all there. The man understands about preservation to the highest level. :-)
Generator drive. I wondered until a little study "What is that? Oh."
Oil fill. It IS an FE1"H" block. Engine's been replaced, hasn't it? Not even listed in the parts book in 29. Up to the FE1"F" and the FE1"G" blocks in Jun of 29.
Zenith carb is frozen almost solid but the governor is loose. The idle screw is loose. : - )
Number 4 rod is the one with the most shims. It's also the loosest. Perhaps twenty thou of up and down movement (.020"). No motion up and down on the first 3 rods. All rods back and forth, perhaps 10-30 thou.
Some trash above the rear main bearing web. I really wonder how it got there. Had another good day inspecting this sweety with a grandson (6) helping by oiling things. He's the one that will get that oil can figured out for just a drop.
He's almost there. Had a heck of a mess up on the transmission cover! He's the one that slithers under one model T Ford, hooks up the battery, slithers out, honks the horn and turns the lights on. : - )
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Old 09-12-2018, 10:22:58 PM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Duey! Hope all is up to par as far as my representation. The crankcase cover was off for a bit. May be sum mice nest/ village in there and I'm not sure how long. It was under tank and I put it on. Sure your crankcase screen may need tlc. I never played with bearing clearance in that one. Just looked in to make sure it wasn't hammered out. Looked ok! I'm sure the blocks were swapped at one time most are. Bottom crankcase should be correct. I know the later ones had brass engine tag riveted on and aren't number stamped. Be neat to see correct fenders on and wheels. Think you will be size surprised compared to 17-28. tough machines that morph into big GT series.
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Old 09-13-2018, 12:51:30 AM
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Default Re: Twin City small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

You kidding? Really, Mr Selzer? ;-) Up to par plus, Adam! True. The starting crank was rusted/stuck in the lower rad housing when you rescued it and behind that you and your dad found a loose engine with some soon compressions? Lucky stuff my good man. I'm still oiling the tar out of the crank
I spent the afternoon straightening the crank pin for the ratchet. Hard pin.
Gave him a shot of ATF and a "thinner" today. Bores look good. No 1 piston top is the dirtiest.

I AM very pleased! Shower's collection if I recall. ;-) Wink wink.
You've shared so much Twin City info lately.

Aha! That explains it all with the little crankcase cover being off for awhile! :-) BIG smiling face. No worries.
A VERY promising engine in a big Brute! Not as big as a Monster (20-35 or 27-44) but this Brute is big.
And yet, the 1936 owners manual still says the weight (including belt pulley and set of lugs) is 6200. Pffftttt. I NOW believe it's a tad bit more! He's big!
Let me put it this way: The 17-28's should have a DRY shipping weight of 5350 IF I remember correctly. These 2 sweet 17-28 Big guys here are petite compared to the Brute at the bottom of the hill. He'll come up after the show.
Big 17-28
Brute 21-32
Monster 27-44
Heavyweights? Another class. ;-)

Some washing downstairs, a rod bearing adjustment and that engine will be ready to go for testing!

It's funky. If you have a baby Twin Cam running at idle or a little better, wind it up to speed then pull it down.
Ya get to hear the real engine sounds inside. Rusty Twin sounds just like an engine. Very nice.
Grey Twin will be there again soon and babbling in these woods.

OK yous guys, how heavy are the oil pans? 75? 100? The crank in a '28 17-28 without counter weights is 100 flat according to the bathroom scale. Why do I remember that and not much else? Oh yes. 28 years.
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