Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Farm Tractors
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Farm Tractors Vintage farm tractors on rubber tires with various implements. Ford, John Deere, Oliver, McCormick and more.

Antique Farm Tractors

Restoration of the Rumely 6 (40 Posts so far)


this thread has 48 replies and has been viewed 7125 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-03-2018, 11:51:30 AM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Restoration of the Rumely 6 (40 Posts so far)

This summer started restoration of the Rumely 6 that has been in the family for years but it's in tough shape. Starting with stripping the Waukesha 6MZA engines and evaluating parts - (what I have and what I need) and so far found intake and exhaust valves, guides, main bearings (std only) some aftermarket rod bearings.

A few guys on this site have been really helpful -Bob Clark's tractor restoration; Ryan at Fennema Farms and the guys at Wauk Historical Society - Dennis especially. I will start posting pictures as progress allows. I have two cranks through the shop - one 020 and one 030 these look really good.

In a few weeks the first engine goes into the machine shop for final cleanup and reassembly, which for a guy who has mostly collected parts for the last 30 years (and moved the old tractors from one barn to another to another etc) is actually somewhat exciting.

What has surprised me so far in the process is the following:

- there are quite a few Rumely 6's out there and a lot of guys quite knowledgeable about the tractor and engine;
- the headbolts came out of the blocks mostly intact - the manifold bills are a disaster; the advance Rumely style manifolds both have rusted through.
- many many walk 6MZ engines were made and are still out there (I just saw a FWD firetruck locally that has that engine!) and many need an engine overhaul!
-the basic block for the 6MZ stayed pretty much the same through years of production even with all the different uses. I have the engines from my tractors; one from a firetruck and one from a stationary power unit.

What questions or Rumely 6 rebuild stories are out there? Also - Mark at Jobbers Warehouse is very knowledgeable and has been very helpful (always miss somebody when you start thanking people...)

Some materials and photos:
the first - some reference material (hope photo comes through)/Users/stevenschock/Desktop/Screen Shot 2018-06-21 at 5.17.07 AM.png/Users/stevenschock/Desktop/Scan 1 copy 3.pdf


Attached photo of block and the "orange" block.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1731.JPG
Views:	340
Size:	270.4 KB
ID:	317886   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1745.JPG
Views:	334
Size:	141.0 KB
ID:	317887  
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Rumely6a For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-04-2018, 04:06:41 PM
Kevin A. Behnke Kevin A. Behnke is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin
Posts: 270
Thanks: 4,395
Thanked 307 Times in 99 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

I have come across some Rumely 6s that were orange, likely painted after Allis Chalmers took over.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Kevin A. Behnke For This Post:
  #3  
Old 09-04-2018, 05:15:13 PM
casertractor casertractor is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Milton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,121
Thanks: 23,404
Thanked 5,574 Times in 2,314 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

More info on the Waukesha engine can be found here: www.wehs.net

Please keep us posted on the restoration.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to casertractor For This Post:
  #4  
Old 09-06-2018, 09:58:46 AM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

Yes the WEHS has some good information and its quite amazing that Wauk was such a dominant engine builder for 50-75 years

one thing I am contemplating - if my old pistons won't fit after the sleeves are cleaned up (one block now had std sized 4.25 and one 030 over) can I retrofit an auto piston? there is a available chevy piston made that with oversize may fit. the wrist pin is close (about 1 inch) the compression height (ch) slightly less (1/8 or less). There are a number of others that would "fit" the diameter but the ch is too short. lots of diesel pistons but ch and wrist pin diameter difference is too great for 1 inch pins

has anyone done this?

an expensive option - have new pistons made or sleeve the cylinders and reuse the std piston which I am trying to avoid if possible - likely 2X the cost of off the shelf pistons and rings

what do you suggest?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rumely6a For This Post:
  #5  
Old 09-06-2018, 02:37:07 PM
Len Spoelman Len Spoelman is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA
Posts: 550
Thanks: 2,999
Thanked 532 Times in 194 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

I think you can have the old pistons flame sprayed to build up the diameter. Surely, others know far more about this than I do.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-06-2018, 03:37:17 PM
John Schwiebert John Schwiebert is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamler Ohio USA
Posts: 1,676
Thanks: 0
Thanked 457 Times in 385 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

What is the compression height and exact pin diameter? Send me an e-mail. John
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-07-2018, 01:40:23 PM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

Did you get my email John?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-07-2018, 10:36:32 PM
John Schwiebert John Schwiebert is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamler Ohio USA
Posts: 1,676
Thanks: 0
Thanked 457 Times in 385 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

Yes, but I did not get a chance to look in my piston catalogs yet.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-10-2018, 09:22:03 PM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

ok a setback - about a 10 in crack in the top of the block all in the water jacket

anyone know if this can be repaired?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1914.JPG
Views:	249
Size:	34.6 KB
ID:	318460  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Rumely6a For This Post:
  #10  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:45:31 AM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,040
Thanks: 5,987
Thanked 3,648 Times in 1,146 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

There is a specialty shop here in Edmonton that can probably repair it. I've used them often. They just welded up extensive cracks in a Fiat 703 block for me using cast iron fusion process.

Edmonton Cast Iron Repair
780 435-4378

Ask for Cal.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
  #11  
Old 09-11-2018, 09:50:28 AM
Wayne Riedlinger Wayne Riedlinger is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Stonyplain, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,047
Thanks: 1,176
Thanked 1,391 Times in 380 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

Probably could be stiched. I wonder if you couldn't warm the block up real good then with some good cast iron rods just weld a bit at a time and peen the heck out of it. I didn't see Phils post but thats about best option.

Last edited by Wayne Riedlinger; 09-11-2018 at 09:52:42 AM. Reason: Read wrong
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Wayne Riedlinger For This Post:
  #12  
Old 09-11-2018, 08:00:06 PM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

yes I read about stiching. it all in the water jacket so there is some hope

I have a second block being evaluated - unfortunately another similar but smaller problem (about 1 inch crac) its off to a specialty shop for evaluation

the block is actually in East central Michigan and I am hoping to do the work close by
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-12-2018, 08:39:38 AM
John Schwiebert John Schwiebert is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hamler Ohio USA
Posts: 1,676
Thanks: 0
Thanked 457 Times in 385 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

You need to get that block pressure tested. Welding will make little pin holes show up other places.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-14-2018, 06:44:46 AM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

did not know that John - thanks for the tip

is there some way to minimize the likelihood of holes - are these due to inclusions, porosity (trapped gas) or some other cause?

I spoke with the weld shop who specializes in cast repair and who will attempt the repair - he was contemplating gas weld for the small crack - but he wanted to think about that. he has not yet seen the block with large crack. The guy at the machine shop organizing the work is most concerned with the block distorting when heated to welding temp (the welder said something like 1200 to 1400 degrees!). Its small and between a water port and the outside of the block about 1 inch long so. he especially worried about cam alignment. the crank mains will be line bored too fit up the partially finished main bearings

the machine shop guys operate an over the road diesel engine shop with 20 to 30 blocks on the floor at any one time and they are all young (under 45!) and are very cautious which is a really good approach in my mind

one other surprise the centre of one of the blocks had been repaired with welding sometime in the distant past about an 1.5 inch square but this looked great. could only see it after the block was cleaned and magged for cracks. the centre of this was one of the head bolts. not sure what happened there but there is a neighbour (85 years old) who had a repair business way back when who may have done or know about this repair - i need to ask him what he remembers
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-15-2018, 06:25:31 AM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

fabricating oil pan
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1938.jpg
Views:	135
Size:	129.8 KB
ID:	318769  
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-15-2018, 10:23:47 AM
KenDawson KenDawson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Shoreview, Minnesota
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

Did restoration on a rumely 6 about 10 years ago motor had been left open and mice moved in did a Frankenstein and installed a power unit to replace only difference was rear crankshaft bronze and cover used from old motor fit perfect tractor runs like a top.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to KenDawson For This Post:
  #17  
Old 09-22-2018, 01:44:39 AM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

I made some good progress this past week as I picked-up my best engine after some maintenance ,cobwebs, bees nests, etc cleaned up.The engine turned out really good and sounds great. the engine was previously in a firetruck and had been rebuilt with 030 pistons, valves etc. 95psi compression on 5/6 cylinders (94 on the other) and good oil pressure (45psi at speed - need to get a tach). I will be checking bearing tolerance when I reassemble the subframe and new oil pan

a few remaining parts needed - snap clips for the delco distributor cap(old one missing) this is a "short style"

front and rear main seals - I have the cork for subframe but need the rubber seal that fits in the governor/valve cover and in (?) in the rear - Ideas anyone? the ID on the timing cover assy looks like about 3 inchs. I will cut the gasket for the pan

I will need to change the timing gear cover /governor assembly as the 6MZ had several different types of timing cover / governor assemblies; the stationary unit is different from the firetruck (don't know the application possibly Ward/ Lefrance) and yet again different. for the Rumely tractor. I do have photos of the proper assembly for the tractor

A first in 50 years - on the chassis - with engine off I was able to manually move the gear shift into all four gears and rock the tractor in R and 1st gear. I drained the molasses out of the transmission case. I plan to run some light fund when it is ready to run to complete the flush - any suggestions? diesel? the alternative run the factory spec oil and drain after a short use which would be somewhat of a waste.

I friend with a "6" is looking for the cast elbow that mounts on the carb - I sent one off to the foundry this week to make some spares.

Ill post the video of the running engine if i can manage the technology

Ok back to Alberta
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Rumely6a For This Post:
  #18  
Old 10-06-2018, 10:36:39 AM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

More information on the restoration. lots of "thanks" to pass around

Dave Reed of Otto in Elkton, Maryland for oversized rings (4.25 plus 030) ordered this week. Dave is an extremely knowledgable source of info.

another big thank you to Bob Clark of Clarks Tractor Restoration in Harrison Michigan who resurrected my "red" 6MZA firetruck engine - now runs great! Will be back at that engine later this week to change the governor, oil pan and subframe and put than on the chassis!

Dennis of WEHS came through with the information on my "red" engine - he says it was likely sold to FWD company by Waukesha in 1947 and had been rebuilt - 030 oversized pistons and rings. purchased that 10 years ago from a fellow in NJ. that is my first running engine

Cattail Foundary in Pennsylvania has completed recast of a number of carb inlet elbows - have not see these yet but the first group shipped this week. I will likely have a few of these as spare for those who may have interest.

steps and challenges for the next assembly - fitting the proper governor and linkage; still working on the rear main seal question (rope ve seal) - see separate post on this - so far it looks like different rear main bearing styles which may depend on the crank and the rear main bearing housing (integral vs separate thrust bearing); mounting front wheels on worn axles - some oversized timken wheel bearings should address the issue; installing a "wet" clutch there was a good article in the archives on this topic; then off to the restoration shop!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rumely6a For This Post:
  #19  
Old 10-06-2018, 11:48:41 AM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

the trouble with thanking someone is for every one you thank you forget to mention two other guys.

Don Livingston of Rusty Acres in Minnesota - great advice generally and nicely rebabbited main bearings through his contacts.

and of course the folks who have commented on this string. With so many knowledgable people an unanticipated but really interesting part of the restoration project is the interesting virtual conversation with these folks.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rumely6a For This Post:
  #20  
Old 10-12-2018, 07:27:52 PM
Rumely6a Rumely6a is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 52
Thanks: 20
Thanked 82 Times in 29 Posts
Default Re: Restoration of the Rumely 6

The addition of twins the Rumely 6 lineup
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1981.jpg
Views:	248
Size:	276.7 KB
ID:	320692  
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Rumely6a For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Rumely 2040 G Restoration LukeSte Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 67 08-05-2019 09:45:06 AM
Rumely E Mechanical Restoration LukeSte Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 89 02-24-2019 10:42:06 PM
Restoration of 2 Rumely F's 19-65Port Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 18 09-22-2017 07:56:12 PM
Rumely 12-20 Restoration LukeSte Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 140 10-11-2015 10:58:44 PM
Rumely 25-40X Restoration, need parts Exmax Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 9 08-07-2010 06:11:34 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:18:57 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277