Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Twin City oil pressure issue


this thread has 40 replies and has been viewed 1779 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:35:03 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Few things that can be frustrating problem areas but when you run one they can be addicting throaty sound. Lots of impressive snort and pull. Slower rpm's and a nice rumble make them fun addition. Trying to talk Dueyc into one but I'm afraid his banker will get the tar and feather out of storage if I showed up with one. did one start up today and oil pressure went up and stayed! ��

Last edited by ajs2744TC; 04-19-2019 at 10:38:11 PM. Reason: Forgot content.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old 04-22-2019, 09:52:40 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 454
Thanks: 818
Thanked 604 Times in 301 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

I'd pee my pants with drugged-up-old tractor JOY if you showed up with that poor OLD monster. We'd make it right.
He (that 20-35) will get my helping hands. Slow as they are.
You don't really talk me into anything. I know what I'm after. You simply offer/provide.

I ain't on the fence about that 20-35, Maw don't... Oops, I mean the banker is hesitant about that $$$ before 2's engine is repaired and running, I think.

Ehh hem! Oil pump issues... That rear bushing?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #23  
Old 04-22-2019, 10:33:30 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Frustrating! Got it out and added water. Fine just a few tiny leaks that I'm sure will sell up on own. Add gas to tank... excellent no leaks at all. Start up and 0 I repeat 0 oil pressure. Well may have leaked down. Primed pump and no go prime again oil goes up and after a minute drops. Huh! ? ! ? So I decide to take out a gasket shi to lower tolerance. Startup and oil goes up with no prime but then stays only at high rpm and once I drop throttle the oil pressure goes away.. next try I decide to takeout check ball on bleed back side closest to outer that has pipe plug above. I start and it runs with perfect 18 lbs no matter what rpm's its at, idle or race. now what????? I'm dumfounded unless it's shaft/cover wear going into timing cover due to bushing wear. ??????????
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
  #24  
Old 04-22-2019, 11:47:01 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 454
Thanks: 818
Thanked 604 Times in 301 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

'31 Chilton's and '70's Stockel's books seem to corroborate each other.
Oil pump gear end clearance. 004" serviceable. .001-.002" desirable.
Body to gear tooth clearance. same
Check those pump gear clearances more?
That pump sucks.
No, it doesn't.
The pump cannot pull the 5/8" ball off the seat.
Could be WAY off base. Recheck those clearances perhaps.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TwinCity15p53.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	130.3 KB
ID:	333267  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #25  
Old 04-23-2019, 09:47:55 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,159
Thanks: 1,968
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Adam...When you removed the check ball the resistance to flow on the suction side was reduced. For what ever reason the oil pump is sucking air rather than oil on a cold start.

There is quite a bit a resistance to flow when the oil is cold. I have a vacuum gauge fitted on the pipe plug port on my 17-28 and it will read 10" of vacuum on a cold start which will go to 0 once the oil warms up. I use this gauge as a means to tell me when the pickup screen is starting to plug. Check to make sure the mesh on the suction screen is not tighter than 30 mesh (30 squares per inch).

Try running the tractor until the oil gets warm and drop the check ball back in. If you have normal oil pump operation with warm oil I suspect the wheezy shaft bushing may be the culprit.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #26  
Old 04-23-2019, 10:07:24 AM
Russ Hamm's Avatar
Russ Hamm Russ Hamm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canton, Kansas, USA
Posts: 1,711
Thanks: 1,232
Thanked 2,849 Times in 941 Posts
Images: 1
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

You better sell that tractor Adam and eliminate some frustration.
Have you been to Kansas?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Russ Hamm For This Post:
  #27  
Old 04-23-2019, 01:24:22 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

No I haven't Russ... Don't tempt me! After already having 2 road kings on hand this one is the most stubborn. Russ.. have you been to Northern Minnesota?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-23-2019, 02:28:40 PM
Russ Hamm's Avatar
Russ Hamm Russ Hamm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canton, Kansas, USA
Posts: 1,711
Thanks: 1,232
Thanked 2,849 Times in 941 Posts
Images: 1
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajs2744TC View Post
No I haven't Russ... Don't tempt me! After already having 2 road kings on hand this one is the most stubborn. Russ.. have you been to Northern Minnesota?
No, but I should go before its too late. Need to visit some of the northern shows.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-23-2019, 06:15:30 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Open to offers Russ.... Kinda have this idea it's still something really dumb. But my head and family say give it a rest and walk away for couple days. But OCD says NO!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
  #30  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:43:26 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 387
Thanked 1,256 Times in 522 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Pump not holding prime. Wouldn't think gears or bushings. If bad wouldn't achieve pressure when warm. Has leaking down internally. Both balls and seats good. Springs?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Molinegb For This Post:
  #31  
Old 04-24-2019, 08:33:53 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Technically appears to hold prime. If I don't prime it but start it whether first time or 20th. Oil pressure goes up to 18 and within 10- 30 seconds drops to 0-2lbs. But if I pull check ball out from under pipe plug nearest u then it goes to 18 and stays. Checkballs are new and spring appears ok. Would think if it was bad it wouldn't function either way.

---------- Post added at 07:33:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29:03 PM ----------

Take and correct that a bit. Sometimes first starts have 0 pressure but when I prime oil goes up then back down. System externally been leak tested and tight. My thought is shaft with drive gear is wallowing opening up air way bigger than design that sucks air in from timing area. If so gosh the idea of tearing apart don't excite me.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:53:45 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 387
Thanked 1,256 Times in 522 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Process of elimination. Borrow pump off another? Maybe cracked housing? Shaft won't wear. You could drain oil completely. Leave bung out with bucket underneath. Fill pump and let sit.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:57:54 AM
Russ Hamm's Avatar
Russ Hamm Russ Hamm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canton, Kansas, USA
Posts: 1,711
Thanks: 1,232
Thanked 2,849 Times in 941 Posts
Images: 1
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

The only trouble I found on my 17-28 pump was gasket thickness, I started out with a thin gasket and when the bolts were tight the engine wouldn't turn over.
Other than that, no real issues, I did have to replace the ball on the suction side as it was pitted. But none of that seems to be an issue here, especially if you have to remove the inlet side ball to keep constant pressure, and good pressure too. I think if air was an issue it would sit in the pump above the inlet ball though, and removing the ball moves air out of the system. If loostening the fill plug wont burp it it must be sucking air into the system constantly, I don't get it either.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-25-2019, 01:12:32 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 387
Thanked 1,256 Times in 522 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

My 12-20 had white metal oil pump. Changed up to later cast one.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Molinegb For This Post:
  #35  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:16:47 PM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,041
Thanks: 5,991
Thanked 3,655 Times in 1,147 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Both 12-20s still have the white metal oil pump. The unrestored one loses it's prime if it sits for a couple of weeks. Suspect porous seat under the check ball. Has good oil pressure when running.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
  #36  
Old 04-25-2019, 05:43:12 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

First TC to do this to me I have noticed the ends of the gear teeth a tad mushroomed in I'm sure due to farmer hammer taps. But wouldn't think that would hinder pressure.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
  #37  
Old 04-25-2019, 10:09:49 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 387
Thanked 1,256 Times in 522 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Same gears used in R and Z's. You can't hurt them.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-27-2019, 12:26:09 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

So tried few more things without luck. Did notice that bleed back check ball would stick up in the passage gone to gears causing the oil to go to 0. So I made a handy screen to only allow ball to go up or down not over. Helped but at idle it still drops to6-8 lbs and 18 at regular speed. Starting to believe it's a combo of shaft wear and gear wear. Only machine I can jiggle shaft up and down and I think at low rpm it wallows and drops pressure and high rpm it straightens out. Now! Second issue my 3&4 cylinder head is getting water into 4th cylinder. Lots! I noticed one day after filling up with water and running that head was hot but other not so much and block seemed ok. After that... now I think it either cracked. Had crack or a rusty spot gave way. (That was the crusty alkali water mouse pee head) or something plugged water ports or combustion explosion opened up a rust hole. Possible my gaskets need to be retorqued. so back to the drawing board ...maybe!

---------- Post added at 11:26:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18:21 AM ----------

On a different note. It did drive out beautifully. No rearend noise or howls. Clutch works better than any other one I have.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
  #39  
Old 04-28-2019, 09:13:32 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 387
Thanked 1,256 Times in 522 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

6-8 lbs little low depending on oil. Maybe little water getting into oil.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-28-2019, 12:59:46 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered-II
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 438
Thanks: 499
Thanked 495 Times in 204 Posts
Default Re: Twin City oil pressure issue

Could be ! I may redo under timing cover that bushing and shaft perhaps try different pump and gears. Now to get another head refurbished. Least I have the new valves and guides from this one.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Twin City Big Twin Cam up for Sale Mark Schneider Live Auctions of Engines, Tractors and Old Iron 29 02-28-2019 12:04:46 AM
Twin City 17-28...My Intiation into the Twin Cam Faternity! Mark Schneider Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 120 06-01-2018 09:21:55 AM
New Member of the Twin City Twin Cam Fraternity J Ware Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 22 09-06-2017 12:25:53 PM
Onan 3KW DJA Oil (Over) Pressure Issue. Spider D Onan Generators 15 02-27-2014 08:44:11 PM
Twin City Head issue Molinegb Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 4 01-23-2014 02:27:08 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:58:55 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277