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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Flywheel Repair (Columbus)


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  #21  
Old 09-18-2019, 08:46:11 PM
Alastair Geddes. Alastair Geddes. is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

I had just about the same problem a crack originating from the keyway corner.
The fix i came up with was cast a new one, all other options did not seem safe. Oil soaked cast iron is hard to weld and being so thick i felt stresses to welding would be significant.

Flywheel loads and unloads with firing so try to rock on the keyway. The split gap not being shimmed lets the spoke section move freely and not to a stop or reaction point.
Best idea to stop it repeating is to put a small radius in the corner of the keyway in the flywheel and radius the top of the key to suit. Shim the split so it tightens on the shaft but cannot move further creating localised stress. forces with be transferred through the shim to the rest of the boss then back to the key. Cast iron does not like tension forces. good in compression bad in tension.
The bolting forces add to the stress of pulling it apart, shimming the split should stop this.

here a few photos its a 20 hp famous on a titan type d.
another fellow has taken over the job so the photo of the new flywheel is of him taking it home.
Both flywheels had the same problem so both had to be cast they where 52 inch diameter, so rather heavy.
I organised casting off the old flywheels built up the areas in need of shrinkage allowance and built up the rim with ply routed to shape. At this time i filled any casting defects so they didn't come out on the new cast ones.
I carted about 12 ton of scrap to help with the casting effort if i remember correctly, bit of back scratching so to speak with the foundry.

A new crank was also made as the old one had cracked on the keyway, it had been rocking on the keys. so once flywheels get machined to suit the new crank everything should be as good as new.
Hopefully all is well with the job and progress is being made on getting it back running.
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  #22  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:34:05 PM
Alastair Geddes. Alastair Geddes. is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

here is a couple of pics of the new crank and new bearings.
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  #23  
Old 09-19-2019, 12:59:57 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is online now
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

The straight flywheel key is not designed to and won't hold a flywheel from turning. The key is for indexing the flywheel. The gibb key wedges the flywheel and the friction holds it solid, not a great design because it holds one side tight while moving the other side away from the crank. Automobiles no longer use keys on power steering pulleys, alternators, or harmonic balancers if there are no timing marks. Power steering uses a press fit, alternators rely on the nut to lock it to the shaft, balancers usually use both, press fit and a torqued bolt. A key alone with a loose flywheel will certainly fail, a tight flywheel with no key will remain in place.
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  #24  
Old 09-19-2019, 02:30:43 PM
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Sad Iron Sad Iron is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Thanks for all the input guys, we've got some decision making to do, some other repairs to tend to and hopefully will start in the right direction this fall.

Jonathan
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  #25  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:40:29 AM
Anton van der Cruijsen Anton van der Cruijsen is offline
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Photo Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Leipzig, June 2019 tractor and engineshow.
Unknown 2 stroke semidiesel hotbulb
Fortunately no one injured
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  #26  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:34:37 PM
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Anton,
Was there a runaway on the engine where its RPM's got out of control or was it simply running at normal speed and came apart? Looking at the pieces that came off it all appears to be a fresh break. Usually there will be a section with rust that shows the hairline cracking that eventually lead to the failure.
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2019, 01:14:01 PM
Anton van der Cruijsen Anton van der Cruijsen is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Tommy, a day before this happend, the engine made a irresponsible high rpm, I don`t know if it was a runaway or the owner let this happen!

Anton
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  #28  
Old 09-20-2019, 02:52:15 PM
Bert Juffer Bert Juffer is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Looks like a swedish "Torps Bruks AB"
I agree with Tommy , it all looks fresh breaks!

Glad no one got hurt!!
It's a good reminder these engines are not toys!!!

Bert
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:08:53 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

I am very surprised that the outer rim did not come apart! Looks to be intact to me. Was the flywheel rim or spokes hit from the side, to cause cracks and break out without breaking the rim itself? i would think that overspeed would blow out the outer rim, as that is the part that expands most as speed incerases
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2019, 03:51:49 PM
Bert Juffer Bert Juffer is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Of topic,deleted

Last edited by Bert Juffer; 09-22-2019 at 02:19:55 PM.
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  #31  
Old 09-20-2019, 04:01:41 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is online now
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

It looks like a tapered shaft, it may have been running loose against the key, breaking it from the inside out.
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  #32  
Old 09-20-2019, 06:59:54 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is online now
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

The broken piece in the second picture appears to have the key way on the left side, you can see the straight line along the break, the wall of the key way appears to be rolled as if it ran loose for a while, this is what I was talking about in the earlier post, a key can't hold a flywheel on a reciprocating engine, a Diesel would be even more punishing with it's high compression slowing the crank down and the power stroke accelerating it.
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  #33  
Old 09-20-2019, 07:40:09 PM
David Hoover David Hoover is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

That piece of spoke has rust all through it, maybe a porosity problem that finally gave out and broke the rest of it?
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  #34  
Old 09-20-2019, 08:27:26 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is online now
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

It looks like that could be the key that's sheared off in the second picture, left side. At the top of the break you can see a little square nib sticking down, toward the bottom you can see where the metal was pulled between the crank and flywheel. If this had been a straight spoke engine it would have probably broke the rim, the S spoke allowed it to break without pushing outward.
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  #35  
Old 09-20-2019, 09:04:41 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is online now
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Just wondering if the engine didn't lock up suddenly and the flywheel kept turning, shearing the key and breaking the flywheel.
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  #36  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:25:12 PM
LCJudge LCJudge is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hoover View Post
That piece of spoke has rust all through it, maybe a porosity problem that finally gave out and broke the rest of it?
I noticed that but thought that was probably where that piece of spoke hit the ground. If there was any moisture at all on the grass, weeds, etc. that it may have landed on then you would immediately see rust as soon as it air dried.
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  #37  
Old 09-21-2019, 04:26:48 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Hi,

On the mention of curved spokes and straight spokes, the flywheel in the picture below, from an early Crossley has light spokes and a heavy rim. Crossley changed this flywheel design early on leaving the rest of the engine the same. They must have known there was a problem with the design, as they lightened the rim and built heavier spokes.

You can see in the photo, the spoke resting on the chair is bowed. It is cracked in 3 places the centre the rim and the hub. How the damage happened I have no idea, but it is obvious that the rim was under stress to push the spoke out.

The wheel is really only useful for a pattern.

Wayne
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  #38  
Old 09-21-2019, 12:31:36 PM
Friedrich W. Busch Friedrich W. Busch is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton van der Cruijsen View Post
Leipzig, June 2019 tractor and engineshow.
Unknown 2 stroke semidiesel hotbulb
Fortunately no one injured
It was not high rpm but rather a loose key that got turned over in its grove wedging the hub apart. Thank you for the pictures, Anton!
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  #39  
Old 09-21-2019, 01:32:06 PM
Bert Juffer Bert Juffer is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Loose key? Looks like the crankshaft is tapered , flywheel must have been loose as well.
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  #40  
Old 09-21-2019, 01:38:19 PM
Bert Juffer Bert Juffer is offline
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Default Re: Flywheel Repair (Columbus)

Jonathan's post gets a bit sidetracked......any ideas on what you're going to do Jonathan?
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