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Oil Field Engines & Related Equipment

say goodbye to huge bessemers


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  #21  
Old 04-28-2013, 09:22:48 PM
W.P.Klein W.P.Klein is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

I e mailed Bob Humphreys a link to this thread. Bob is a retired CB sales engineer and a true expert on their engines. I have pasted his response below. This may give some insight into why they are being replaced. Take notice of the BTU per Brake Horsepower per Hour they consumed. Bill Klein

"Bill, I admire you young guy that recover and rebuild old Bessemer oil field engines. The write up you sent on a 1914 1000 HP Cooper 125 RPM Type 22, 21 1`2 X 36 Cooper first 1000 HP Type 22 was built in 1916. The engine fuel rate was 13,000 BTU/BHP/HR and the old timers said on an inter state pipe line the fuel consumed 7% of the total through put. In 1956 I was the young sale engr. that handled turbocharging 56 of Panhandle Eastern Pipe Line Type 22`s and Type 24`s. I was in Grove City several times a month writing progress reports. In 1958 living in Tulsa I was involved in the Fla. Gas Pipe Line as Floyd Stanley purchased CB 2000 HP LS 8 SG`s built in GC and we guaranteed 6200 BTU/BHP/HR as the price of gas was valued at 46 cent per 1000 cu. ft. which was considered a high price. More of the good old days, Bob Humphreys"
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  #22  
Old 04-29-2013, 10:28:28 AM
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

These could meet any EPA requirement, And I would bet they arent too far off emissions now. They just need to contact a Catalyst Manufacture that specializes in large nat gas engines like Miratech, Emit or DCL. Thats what those companies do.
OR, If there are some old unused / no longer used disposal wells in the area you can inject the exhuast into some zone thats no longer produced, or a zone that could benifit from the heat and pressure, Then you have a Zero Emissions engine. This has already been done in my part of the country for years.
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  #23  
Old 04-29-2013, 02:52:05 PM
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Jonah Close Jonah Close is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

How do you get the EPA to change their mind?
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  #24  
Old 04-29-2013, 05:10:10 PM
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

How to Change the EPA? You dont. But honestly, it doesnt take that much effort to comply with emissions regulations. Especially when you take into account all the standards and expense you have to maintain when operating a whole compressor station anyway. Also, these new Cat engines that are going in thier place? They will all have catylsts and AFR's on them too. Anything new these days over 25HP must have catylsts and AFR's on them to meet the emissions requirements.
My suggestion is, Have a catylst built to the specs the engines need, install a AFR valve and keep running. AFR stands for "auto fuel regulator" they read O2 sensors and if the exhaust is too rich it pinches off the fuel a little....If the exhaust is too lean it opens. Its just a fancy electronic ball valve.
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  #25  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:34:20 PM
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Then why don't they do that?
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  #26  
Old 04-29-2013, 09:40:15 PM
TractionEngines TractionEngines is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

I think it sounds like the decision to change them is already made. Rather than talk about all the ways they could be made compliant; we should be finding a way to keep them from the "scrap man". Is that part of it a done deal? If not we need to find a way to make an offer on them. If it is a done deal then we need to find the "scraper" and find a way to have them removed carefully and "buy-back" from scraper....
Mike
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:51:55 PM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

a pair of these were offered to coolspring power museum. the man power and huge cost makes i something we have to take into account. the concrete base under a pair of these would be in the hundred thousand or more area. with the oil cooling tank, the water tanks and tower, the air piping, the gas piping. the flywheel pit, etc., i would say about a half million to do the move and the correct set up. not to mention the many thousands of dollars for equipment rental and the actual trucking of the pieces. but we can dream, can't we. my idea was for the gas company to make a museum of this site. they are doing soil and base structure of the property next to this one to start a building for the big catapilars and the compressors. why not just leave these as a museum and for backups if the other pumping station with the cats should break down.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:37:16 AM
Tamper84 Tamper84 is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Wow thank you for this!! I see you are down in Belpre. Where abouts are these engines?

Thanks,
Chris
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  #29  
Old 04-30-2013, 09:07:48 AM
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toesmack View Post
The 3606 is a little large for the class 8 trucks. Approx 35,000 lbs dry weight would demand quite a front axle and tires would be a killer. These are used primarily as a pumping engine, power generation or marine app.

Sure seems like the original engines could be made emission compliant for a lot less than replacement with 3606's at several hundred thousand each.


I know / understand what a 3606 is, I also know that large ships setting around ports idleing for days while being loaded / unloaded are being looked at by the EPA as potential victims of their chopping block. My point is, why replace a good engine when it does it's job? Are they going to save that much money? are they going to be that much cleaner? I know the natural gas burns cleaner than diesel, that's why they are testing and shoving them in the road trucks today. I'm all for the add a EPA exhaust as I call them and let them live.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:25:41 AM
TractionEngines TractionEngines is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Tamper84:
"the last run day for this station in rockport wv is may 12, 2013."
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  #31  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:57:24 AM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

if this station was put on the national register of historical places, i'm sure a lot could be done to save them. they have a lot of resourses.

---------- Post added at 10:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMnWV View Post
I know / understand what a 3606 is, I also know that large ships setting around ports idleing for days while being loaded / unloaded are being looked at by the EPA as potential victims of their chopping block. My point is, why replace a good engine when it does it's job? Are they going to save that much money? are they going to be that much cleaner? I know the natural gas burns cleaner than diesel, that's why they are testing and shoving them in the road trucks today. I'm all for the add a EPA exhaust as I call them and let them live.
the new diesels will be running on nat. gas as I understand. i'm not sure how they do this, but they have a big diesel generator for backup that uses nat. gas.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 AM ----------

.
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  #32  
Old 04-30-2013, 12:24:51 PM
RWellman RWellman is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Rod,

There have been several times when a station (water lift for a city/cities) was registered as a historical site, the only problem is it was the building itself & the steam engines were scrapped !
Thanks again for the great footage!


Reid
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  #33  
Old 04-30-2013, 06:54:51 PM
JHoward JHoward is offline
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Smile Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

For the most part Interstate gas transmission companies are in the business of transporting gas through their pipelines for their customers which are LDC's (local distributing companies).

Competition is fierce for contracts to move gas from the well head to the end user and fuel gas costs for the running of the engine/compressors is their number one expense followed by labor.

Contracts to move X amount of gas from point A to point B can be won or lost on a fraction of a cent difference per thousand cubic foot in the bid.

Gas transmission companies are very concerned about the cost of fuel gas as well as labor costs involved in maintaining large, slow speed, compressor engines versus modern high speed engines.

Emissions also figure into it big time as the cost of filtering medium for exhaust gas scrubbing is high as are the fines for failing an emissions test are impressive.

Back when those horizontals were installed was a simpler time and bear little in common to today's world of moving natural gas.

Jhoward
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  #34  
Old 04-30-2013, 09:08:56 PM
Weezer Weezer is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Wonderful music, I could listen to that all day.
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  #35  
Old 04-30-2013, 10:37:14 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

A freind talked to Pete Lanfred who works at the station and he said the last day for running is May 8th unless corporate extends the date. The eccerntric engine is down now with a bearing problem and won't be fixed. They are planning on scrapping the engines. We at Rough and Tumble will try to get as many spare parts from the eccentric engine as we can for our engine. They are open to give tours anytime until the 8th. The number at the station is (304) 474-3555.
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  #36  
Old 05-01-2013, 11:11:40 PM
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Coopers at Rockport
I had the total enjoyment of watching these engines run for 4 hours. Although they will shut down for the summer soon, they are to run again in September to top off the storage field. Rod and I will try to keep all posted when this will happen. Scrapping will not be until Jan. 2014. This is a friendly station and I think that anyone could stop by, talk to the engineer, and see the engines this Summer. The station is located just south of Rockport, WV. If any organization wishes to save one, especially the 1914 eccentric valve drive Cooper, it is free. I have the contact information. Any ideas?
Paul Harvey

---------- Post added at 11:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 PM ----------

Looking at some of the comments of the Rockport engines, i have chatted with the two engineers who did the emission testing. They had all in compliance with catalysts except the one rebored cylinder on the 1914 Cooper. They felt they could also bring that into compliance when the company pulled the plug on them. Interesting!
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  #37  
Old 05-02-2013, 12:41:45 AM
Rod Fielder Rod Fielder is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

thanks paul for your input

I truly hope that we can convince them to save this as a back up station, maybe with weekend or monthly runs

dreamin's free
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:35:34 PM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

I have always wanted to see an engine museum in WV and this would be a great place to just shut the doors and hand the title over to the new 501c that could be started to preserve and protect the heritage of the industry in WV.

Everyone needs to take off the 8th and take their "BIG" engines to the facility and run them...........and call the news and the Gov. and try to preserve them....

Whenever my dad and I went out looking for engines when I was a child he used to stop and wells and compressor stations and we would go in and visit and watch the engines. My favorite was the one at Burnsville because it was steam

I will go out in the garage now and let my other WV engines know that they are losing some of their kin-folk in a short time.......

They won't even get to RUST IN PEACE..............
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Jeff
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Old 05-26-2013, 02:07:14 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Roger Kriebel showed me a copy of a company magazine called "The Pipeline". It was put out by United Fuel Gas Co. in 1955. In it is an article about the Rockport station. The station was actually brand new in 1955 with the first compression of gas taking place July 3rd 1955. All three engines were put in used from two older stations. The station was built with UFG employees instead of outside contractors and the total construction costs were $1.21 million.

The eccentric engine came from Trace Fork in Jackson County and the cam engines came from Lewis in Roane County. The building came from Lewis. One of the employees moved from Trace Fork to Rockport which is 20 miles away. That man worked on the construction of Trace Fork in 1942. So Trace Fork was only in operation for 12 years before it was shut down, so the eccentric Cooper was at an even earlier station at one time. So that engine has been in at least three stations.
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:11:27 AM
Combustor Combustor is offline
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Default Re: say goodbye to huge bessemers

Sure hate to see all this wonderful old gear coming to the end of its economic life, and wish that at least one unit could be left as a running display for special occasions, but I fear that WP Klein in Post 21 said it all when a reliable source pointed out that in 1916, these engines consumed gas at the rate of 13000 BTU per HP/HR. In 1958, engines used 6200 BTU/HP/HR, and in 2013 I imagine current technology could halve that consumption again. Can not imagine any business giving away 7% of the gas they transport, when current engines could likely do it for 1.5%.
The difference is likely more than their current profit margins. These are the brutal realities they deal with. Hate to rain on your parade. Combustor.
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