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Fuels and Alternative Fuels Materials or substances that can be used as a fuel, waste oils, vegetable oils or animal fats, which can be used alone, or blended with fossil fuels.

Fuels and Alternative Fuels

Bad Gas?


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  #41  
Old 11-03-2012, 03:20:23 PM
BobRR BobRR is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Here in Mi. I have had the same experience as Otto. with very few if any problems with ethanol. I,too think its the different additives for the different areas. I think there are 20 different blends for around the country. Bob
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  #42  
Old 11-03-2012, 03:28:31 PM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

I leave my Toyota Tacoma parked in Nevada for 6-9 months of the year, been doing it for the past 9 years, and usually with only 1/4 to 1/2 tank of fuel, all I can say is it starts and runs fine when I show up Same goes for the manlift
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  #43  
Old 11-03-2012, 03:42:12 PM
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprkplug View Post
I'll bet the carb on that Ford has idle passages big enough to run a pipe cleaner through...:
I highly doubt they're THAT big, and even IF they were, which they aren't, the idle mixture screws would still have the passages restricted down the same flow rate as any other carb with bigger or smaller passages, so the size of the actually passages drilled through the carb would be irrelevent.

Anyone know what size the idle circuit passages are on a Stromberg 97 ???? Not that it really matters.
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  #44  
Old 11-03-2012, 05:50:11 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Ah, but the moveable idle mixture screws can be opened up, or enlarged, thereby removing any restriction.... not so on a fixed jet carb.

As for ethanol problems, all I can comment on is what I work on every day...small engines. And that is where I see the effects of alcohol, or more precisely, the effects of stored, or old fuel. The smaller the passages in the carb, the less it takes to restrict them. The fuel molecules don't get correspondingly smaller just because the carb is smaller......they're still the same size as they are in an old Ford, or a Firebird.

Bill mentioned a problem with his 95 Contour. The mechanic suspected a problem with the valves, checked them out, and asked how old is the fuel... I'm guessing here, as I am basing this on my small engine experience, but I agree with his assessment...Why? The number one cause of sticky intake valves on an air cooled engine is....stale fuel.

I believe that the first mechanic was correct when he suspected a valve problem. Typically, the engine will start initially, but as heat begins to build the residue from the nasty fuel starts to turn sticky...causing the valve action to slow, or sometimes stick altogether. Very common.
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  #45  
Old 11-03-2012, 07:08:05 PM
GlenK GlenK is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

I have left gas in mowers , generators , weed eaters , and trucks for long periods of time [ 6 months to 2 years ] and have not had a problem .

A friend ask me how he could dispose of 5 gallon of gas that was 8 years old . I told him to use it in his mower . He wouldn't do it , so i told him to bring it over I would use it to start brush fires . I used it in my mower . it smoked some . I ask him later if it was only gas ,or if it had oil in it . He told me , you said you would use it for brush fires so I changed my oil and dumped it in the old gas . It still ran fine .

I have no problem with old gas . It drivers my father inlaw crazy , he repairs small engines and claims the gas is the biggest problem .
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2012, 08:09:22 PM
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Briggs and Stratton has the opposite view. They state that fuel blended for summertime use should not be poured into their engines if it's over TWO WEEKS old......yeah I know, no one is going to listen to that advice....what do they recommend that you do with it?

Pour it into your late model car or truck. Newer automobiles, with their EFI and electronic engine management systems can compensate much more readily for any lack of volatility, at least when compared to a fixed timing, non-adjustable carb equipped small engine.

And no, I don't follow that advice either. I only buy an amount of fuel that I know I can use in 30 days time.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:25:23 PM
LundMachineWorks LundMachineWorks is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

I found this MSDS sheet for winter gas.

Note the first ingredient being Benzene. This is a major component in PCB!
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:29:48 PM
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

http://fueltestkit.com/MSDS_9950_Hes...l_ethanol.html
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  #49  
Old 11-04-2012, 02:22:52 AM
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Or just go to buyrealgas.com on the internet, punch in your state and find the closest station to you that sells ethanol free gasoline. Or you can just search the internet for "ethanol free gasoline". Seem to be quite a few places throughout the country that still sell non blended gasoline.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:12:46 AM
dalmatiangirl61 dalmatiangirl61 is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

My 97 toyota is fuel injected, are carb passages smaller than injector passages? It sat for 10 months this past year, through temps down to -20 and as high as 100 this past summer, I fired it up a few weeks ago on a brisk 40 degree morning, engine rolled over maybe 3 times before it fired.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:18:00 AM
1936JDB 1936JDB is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

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Originally Posted by Everett Hayden View Post
Or just go to buyrealgas.com on the internet, punch in your state and find the closest station to you that sells ethanol free gasoline. Or you can just search the internet for "ethanol free gasoline". Seem to be quite a few places throughout the country that still sell non blended gasoline.
Did you actually read the thread?? It's about those of us that DON'T have problems with ethanol.
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  #52  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:51:40 AM
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

I have a push mower in the shed that starts every spring with no problems and no stabilizer, do'nt have much problems with any of my engines....except the smaller grandkids 4-wheelers, jets in the carbs are so darn small they will jell up with green goo in 3 weeks flat,on the other hand, my Dad is very prompt with stabilizer use and swears by it. Now my tractors that set for 8-10 months at a time are more likely to give me problems.


Jim
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  #53  
Old 11-04-2012, 02:59:44 PM
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprkplug View Post
Ah, but the moveable idle mixture screws can be opened up, or enlarged, thereby removing any restriction.... not so on a fixed jet carb...
Go back and re-read post #33

Or I can save you the trouble and copy and paste a line from it here....

"" I DID Prime the carb with new gas just to save cranking time waiting for the fuel pump to refill the card, but That's All that was done to the carb which I Have NOT Touched since I rebuilt it in 1979 (34 years ago). I have not touched the idle mixture screws, or the idle speed adjustment, or anything else on it in all those years""

That effectively makes it the Same as a 'Fixed Jet Carb', and could plug up just the same....

Except it Never Has plugged up in 34 years of being stored more than it's driven, and always setting with a 1/4 tank Or Less in a building with a dirt floor and high humidity with a vented gas tank and "up to" 10% alcohol (which some people claim is actually "Up To 15%-20% or higher)
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  #54  
Old 11-04-2012, 06:04:18 PM
Pete Deets Pete Deets is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

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Originally Posted by 1936JDB View Post
There are threads over at the harley sight about guys traveling, having to put ethanol gas in their bike when in areas where there is no choice. Then the bike starts spitting and bucking, and won't run right till they drain it out and refill with regular fuel. Of course, then 50 other guys pile on, with similar stories, and the idea that it is all the fault of the ethanol. I just don't get it.
I'll offer my experience from just that scenario and our best guess (worth what you pay for it). Heading to a cycle rally in SW Wi., 2 friends from Mo. came up through Ia. on the way. Neither bike had ever seen ethanol until a needed stop in Ia. and blend was all that was available. Within 25 miles neither bike ran well and shortly thereafter one ran lean/hot enough to seize. The other ran well enough to get them to the rally site & arrange rescue. After a fuel dump/refill that bike survived.

With many decades of combined gearhead experience in the group ranging from professional wrench to shadetree and trained engineer to casual observer our best guess was something in the blended fuel turned into a great solvent and choked off the screens/fuel filters with "stuff" that had been resident in the system but had been, as yet, undisturbed.

Perhaps that is what is happening to your fellow riders and they are solving their problem without fully realizing they did it.......PD
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:08:05 PM
1936JDB 1936JDB is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Were they carbed bikes, or injected?
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:08:17 PM
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OTTO-Sawyer View Post
Go back and re-read post #33

Or I can save you the trouble and copy and paste a line from it here....

"" I DID Prime the carb with new gas just to save cranking time waiting for the fuel pump to refill the card, but That's All that was done to the carb which I Have NOT Touched since I rebuilt it in 1979 (34 years ago). I have not touched the idle mixture screws, or the idle speed adjustment, or anything else on it in all those years""

That effectively makes it the Same as a 'Fixed Jet Carb', and could plug up just the same....

Except it Never Has plugged up in 34 years of being stored more than it's driven, and always setting with a 1/4 tank Or Less in a building with a dirt floor and high humidity with a vented gas tank and "up to" 10% alcohol (which some people claim is actually "Up To 15%-20% or higher)
No need to re-read #33 Otto, I remember very well what you wrote. And, I still stand by what I said then. The idle passages in a carb intended for an automotive engine are larger than those in use on a 26 cc two cycle. By the time one has set the mixture screws on a stromberg to whatever position is recommended, there is still going to be much more "room" in that idle circuit than there is in a string trimmer. More room equates to more time needed, and more buildup of gummy residue required, to achieve the same level of restriction encountered in a much shorter time frame on the two-cycle.....
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:20:12 PM
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Pulled out the trusty old Craftsman chainsaw about 20 minutes ago, it has not been used in at least 2 years, maybe 3. Fuel tank was less than 1/4 full, since I just needed to trim a few tree branches back I did not bother adding fresh fuel, hit the primer bulb a few times, set choke, it coughed on 8th pull so I killed the choke, fired-up on 10th pull, ran rough for 30 seconds or so then revved up fine. Trimmed the branches and threw it back in the box till I need it next.
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  #58  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:23:17 PM
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Everett Hayden Everett Hayden is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1936JDB View Post
Did you actually read the thread?? It's about those of us that DON'T have problems with ethanol.
Yes sir, I did read the thread start to finish after you pointed out that I should. I thought it was an interesting thread both times. But not all the contributors have no trouble, like the fellow from Texas. Here in Arizona it's not a good idea to leave the oxygenated, or ethanol fuel sit over the winter in anything or it will gum it up. Maybe with it almost always being warm here the lighter spirits evaporate faster. Perhaps it is a slightly different mix we are getting from what ever refinery provides it, as some suggested. What we get here comes piped in from Texas and it gets skunky pretty quick.
Your first post asked "if people were exagerating or do I have magical anti gumming powers"? Seems you are not alone in getting along fine with the blended fuel, but you do have less trouble than some others. I seem to fall somewhere in the middle.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:51:21 PM
sprkplug sprkplug is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

I agree that some seem to have little to no problems, while others struggle almost constantly. I don't have the answer to that conundrum, but I am very aware that today's fuel is capable of causing problems....as I stated earlier, I see it every day. I still think that the age of the equipment in question, as well as the storage time, plays a greater role than the ethanol itself, but that's just my opinion.

What I do know, is that hardly a month goes by that one of today's small engine manufacturers doesn't walk into my shop with a free bottle of the latest and greatest fuel stabilizer/treatment.... "Here, try this and let me know how it works" is the usual comment. Why then, are they concerned? Well, I asked....seems they are experiencing a huge volume of carb issues submitted as warranties when in fact the problems are caused by some aspect of the fuel itself.....the very same thing I see on weekly basis in my shop.

Stihl specs at least 89 octane, and no more than 10% ethanol in their new equipment...if you expect your warranty to be any good that is... they also state not to keep fuel longer than 30 days, no matter the season.... in addition, they have LOWERED the pricing on many of their carbs....why? Because they are seeing so many problems, and they now recommend complete replacement of the carb, rather than a rebuild...
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:18:39 PM
1936JDB 1936JDB is offline
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Default Re: Bad Gas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everett Hayden View Post
Yes sir, I did read the thread start to finish after you pointed out that I should. I thought it was an interesting thread both times. But not all the contributors have no trouble, like the fellow from Texas. Here in Arizona it's not a good idea to leave the oxygenated, or ethanol fuel sit over the winter in anything or it will gum it up. Maybe with it almost always being warm here the lighter spirits evaporate faster. Perhaps it is a slightly different mix we are getting from what ever refinery provides it, as some suggested. What we get here comes piped in from Texas and it gets skunky pretty quick.
Your first post asked "if people were exagerating or do I have magical anti gumming powers"? Seems you are not alone in getting along fine with the blended fuel, but you do have less trouble than some others. I seem to fall somewhere in the middle.
I see, thanks for the input.
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