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Small Air Cooled Gasoline Engines

Stuck Rings


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  #1  
Old 06-24-2006, 05:56:42 PM
s moore
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Angry Stuck Rings

hi to all.i just got a real good looking k582.the problem is that it has rings stuck to block i have cleaned piston top and bore very good.then took xacto knive and carefully cut and scraped all rust out between sides of piston down to top ring.i have been soaking block and crankcase i kerosene for a week.i put heads back on then filled top of cyl. with kero.plus was able to hold compressed air on fluid for 5 min.i removed baseplate before starting this,rods ok.have done much tapping,still stuck whats next????
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2006, 06:07:08 PM
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John Newman Jr. John Newman Jr. is online now
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Default Re: stuck rings

I think I would find a piece of hard wood and carve it, or turn it in a wood lathe, to fit your cylinder. Then give it a few good whacks with a stout mallet or a small sledge hammer. Usually if you can break it free from where it is stuck, it will go the rest of the way without nearly as much resistance. Disconnect the rods from the crank before trying this so you are not trying to 'crank' the entire engine over with this method.
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  #3  
Old 06-24-2006, 06:34:52 PM
KDewees1
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Default Re: stuck rings

Does it have an electrical start, if so, charge it to it's full potential, and try to get the engine to turn over.

If that doesn't work, then take the blower housing off, and take the coil off and use a brass chisel then tap the flywheel with a small sledge hammer, that should free it.

Good luck

~KD1
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  #4  
Old 06-25-2006, 01:57:45 AM
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Default Re: stuck rings

KD1,
To deliver sufficient force to break a rusted stuck piston loose in a cylinder, it is better to minimize the 'links' in the chain of events. By applying impact forces to the flywheel in an attempt to free a stuck piston you are transmitting that energy to a lot of other parts. The bearings (both main & rod) will get a substantial pounding and the rod itself will be subjected to a lot of excessive stress. Striking a flywheel with any kind of impact - even with a brass punch or chisel - is never a good idea.
I had an old '30s Jacobsen '4-Acre' 2-Stroke engine that had a cast iron piston rusted in the cylinder. I put it under a hydraulic press and it took over 6 tons of pressure to get it to move. The engine in question probably won't need nearly that much, but why risk unnecessary damage to a lot of other components.
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Old 06-25-2006, 01:33:22 PM
Leonard Keifer Leonard Keifer is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

From experience: don't get in a hurry. You've only been soaking the thing for a week, took a lot longer than that to rust. If you get impatient you'll get to buy a new piston (I have!).

I've used John's method using a piece of oak on top of the piston. Some of the small engine pistons I had to free up took several weeks of soaking before they would budge. Some of them I got to move down a little, I then cleaned the bore that was exposed and hsing a piece of wood on the end of the rod knocked the piston back the other way. After a couple of times of doing this the piston eventually came out.

Key word: patience.
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  #6  
Old 06-26-2006, 02:22:28 PM
HoMade HoMade is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

If it were me, I'd switch to Liquid Wrench or PB Blaster or some such and keep up the soaking...tapping, soaking, etc. It will work eventually.
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2006, 07:29:10 AM
Pyeper Pyeper is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

patience

spray WD40 or Q10 or Q20 down the barrel or even diesel.

leave it to soak for a while.

take a block of wood, even pine and place it in the barrel. it should be a fairly good fit. use a hide mallet or maybe even a hammer to smack the exposed end of the block of wood. if the wood gets damaged its not a train smash which is the beauty of this method. i advise to leave the conrod connected to the crank and leave the flywheel on. this adds momentum when the piston starts to move. obviously this will not help if the piston is at bottom dead center.


however i have had engines that have been seized because the flywheel rusted to the bell housing.
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2006, 07:31:29 AM
Pyeper Pyeper is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

btw trying to get the p[iston to move with the electric start is the fastest way to burn the genny/starter out
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Old 12-12-2009, 08:30:42 AM
davey1000 davey1000 is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

On small engines a large socket from a 3/4" drive socket set can be used as a drift. IMHO it is important to apply pressure to the edges of the piston, not the centre. Driving pistons downwards is fairly safe but driving them upwards by tapping the conrod with a mallet is very risky. The problem is that the piston skirt can get left behind. As the cylinder barrel on this boxer engined motorcycle had been full of rain for at least a year new parts had to be purchased as the cylinder was badly pitted. Can't win em all!
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:08:05 AM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Stuck Rings

Before you try to move the piston, try heating the cylinder good and hot with a propane torch. Do this outdoors, away from any structures. Heat will expand the cylinder, and will help the solvent get around the piston. Heat the cylinder, until the solvent begins to vaporize pretty well, and then let the cylinder cool. if the solvent catches fire, let it burn itself out, and after the cylinder cools a bit, add more. Let the cylinder cool to the point where you can handle it, and then try to bump it loose. DO NOT beat on the piston too hard! The piston is relatively soft aluminum, and if hit hard enough, will crush the crown enough to trap the top ring and make it immobile in the ring groove, as well may even stove in the center of the crown.Once the piston is damaged, it will have to be replaced, so easy does it!
Andrew
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2009, 10:30:40 AM
Jimmie Bee Jimmie Bee is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

S Moore, It is very important that the piston be removed by using force from on top. DO NOT keep connected to the crank. There is not enough momentum gained to justify leaving the connecting rod connected to the crank. If you do keep it connected, be prepared to sacrifice the crank, the connecting rod and maybe valves and such. You are trying to remove the PISTON; not the other parts. If necessary you may attempt to use a hydraulic press to get some movement from the piston. Be sure to use a wooden piece very close to diameter of piston as this spreads pressure over the whole piston and not the center where you may push the middle of the piston out and ruin it all. Remember, some parts of some of these things may not be available. PATIENCE is the better part of valor and as said before, use whatever penetrant you prefer, whether it is kroil, Marvel mystery oil, kerosene or what have you. Keep up the soaking and it may still take 6 weeks. It's winter time, don't be in too big a hurry.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2009, 12:34:35 PM
gambitace71 gambitace71 is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

liquid wrench and PB blaster work on light rust problems,but dont work very well on a stuck cylenders.two things that work very well is gibbs and freezeoff.gibbs can be ordered out of gas engine magizine.freeze of is sold at napa auto parts.i am very impresed with freeze off.i think it is better than gibbs.i have used freeze off on things that would take forever with blaster to brake lose and had them free up in a couple of hours.try it.keep the chisle and punchs away from your engine.you will cause more damage than you will want to repair.go light on a block of wood also.thanks
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Old 12-12-2009, 07:09:19 PM
bill chasser bill chasser is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

s moore

Another product to try is made by Vermeer equipment Co in aerosol and is designed to break stubborn bolts loose. Veermeer builds tree chippers, stump grinders and asphalt grinnders. Penetration is excellent and much better than WD also to add to the wood as medium for driving the piston downward...like john said make it a good fit in the bore not only to keep from punching a hole in the center but to also stabilize the outer edge so you don't inadvertantly break the upper ring land out. i wood use hardwood like oak, almond etc as it will hold up better to repeated blows. heat can also expand the bore as you drive the piston. I'm not familiar with your engine but if you can get the crankshaft out of the block and let the rod and piston hang all the better. once you get it broke loose you should be able to drive it back up through the top of the bore. many pistons cannot be dropped through the bottom end.

Bill
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2009, 10:54:41 PM
NoSpark NoSpark is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

I hope that after 3 1/2 years S Moore finally gets his piston unstuck.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:16:18 AM
joesow joesow is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

Quote:
Originally Posted by s moore View Post
hi to all.i just got a real good looking k582.the problem is that it has rings stuck to block i have cleaned piston top and bore very good.then took xacto knive and carefully cut and scraped all rust out between sides of piston down to top ring.i have been soaking block and crankcase i kerosene for a week.i put heads back on then filled top of cyl. with kero.plus was able to hold compressed air on fluid for 5 min.i removed baseplate before starting this,rods ok.have done much tapping,still stuck whats next????
I just broke loose a STUCK Tecumseh engine that had been underwater for a very long time. Soaking never worked. A good friend freed it by taking a sparkplug and installed a Zerk fitting and then pumped grease into the cylinder and it broke it loose. Before, we tried a 10 ton press with no avail. The "Grease Gun"
pumper method will probably break your piston loose like mine did. It's work a try and your not beating on anything.

joesow
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2009, 12:14:18 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Stuck Rings

The only problem with a grease gun method, is the weakness of the center of the aluminum piston. Blow that out, and you might as well as hammer it out. In this case, heating, soaking, and using the hardwood block is the best route. As stated above, it didn't stick in a day! Take your time, and you will be rewarded!
Andrew
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  #17  
Old 12-27-2009, 01:32:24 PM
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Temple2426 Temple2426 is offline
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Default Re: Stuck Rings

This is a post That was posted on another post. This stuff works great!!!!--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has anyone tried this?? (I found this on the Web)

Machinist's Workshop magazine actually tested penetrating
oils for break out torque on rusted nuts.
Significant results!
They are below, as forwarded by an ex-student and professional machinist
They arranged a subjective test of all the popular penetrants with the control being the torque required to remove the nut from a "scientifically rusted" environment.**


*Penetrating oil ..... Average load*

None ...................... 516 pounds
WD-40 ................... 238 pounds
PB Blaster .............. 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ...... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ............. 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix....53 pounds

*The ATF-Acetone mix was a "home brew" mix of 50 - 50
automatic transmission fluid and acetone.*

*Your experience may vary, etc., etc.*
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