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Manifold bolt broke off in head!


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  #1  
Old 05-26-2012, 08:23:51 PM
55gasser 55gasser is offline
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Default Manifold bolt broke off in head!

What is the best aproach to remove a broken bolt from a head? This is on my Farmall F12 and upon removeing the manifold one of the bolts broke, but there was still enough of it to get the vise grips on it once the manifold was removed. I heated it up with the torch and then tried to remove it and I think it was moveing a little and then it snaped again flush with the block. Is it best to drill and try ease-out or drill and re-thread?
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:56:29 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!!

Don't use an EZout, if the bolt broke you're going to break the EZout then you're in trouble. It's lat now but when you had material to grab you should have tapped on it with a hammer repeatedly. After this clamp with vise grips and shake the bolt back and forth. Hold the tip of your finger and twist it back and forth, you will see the top moveing, decreasing toward your hand. A bolt will do the same thing, as you're twisting it, it starts to loosen at the top and works it's way to the bottom. Now that it's broken you'll have to drill it. Use sharp bits, new cobalts would be best. Drill until you can start to see threads on one side, use a cape chisel to peel the remaining bolt out, re-tap. A Dremel with a 1/8" carbide burr works nice to gring until you see the threads start to show, you can do this 180 apart and peel the remainder.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:46:10 PM
55gasser 55gasser is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.B. Castagnos View Post
Don't use an EZout, if the bolt broke you're going to break the EZout then you're in trouble. It's lat now but when you had material to grab you should have tapped on it with a hammer repeatedly. After this clamp with vise grips and shake the bolt back and forth. Hold the tip of your finger and twist it back and forth, you will see the top moveing, decreasing toward your hand. A bolt will do the same thing, as you're twisting it, it starts to loosen at the top and works it's way to the bottom. Now that it's broken you'll have to drill it. Use sharp bits, new cobalts would be best. Drill until you can start to see threads on one side, use a cape chisel to peel the remaining bolt out, re-tap. A Dremel with a 1/8" carbide burr works nice to gring until you see the threads start to show, you can do this 180 apart and peel the remainder.
This may sound stupid but I am not familiar with a cape chisel. What is it and how does it work???
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Old 05-27-2012, 01:25:00 AM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!!

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Originally Posted by 55gasser View Post
This may sound stupid but I am not familiar with a cape chisel. What is it and how does it work???
I get mine from Snapon, they have a flat blade that's rounded on one side to fit against the hole, end is sharpened at a 45. You place it between the bolt and head and it wedges them apart. I've gotten by with a pin punch sharpened at a 45.
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Old 05-27-2012, 03:12:44 AM
Ray Freeman Ray Freeman is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

Also from Snap On you can buy left handed cobalt drill.Using one if its a bit loose it will likely wind out while you are drilling it.I like to weld a nut on if possible. If the stud is still flush you may be able to still do that and carefully wind back and forth and get it out. That's worked for me often when people bring me broken studs to spark erode out
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:54:46 AM
Phil P Phil P is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

Hi

J. B. Castagnos has it correct. The only thing he didn’t explain is the Cape chisel. There are 2 types of Cape chisel. The one J. B. Castagnos explained to you and there is also a straight Cape chisel. The straight Cape chisel is not the one you want for the procedure you are about to do.

The original Cape chisel was used to hand cut key ways to key a pulley or gear to a shaft.

My father was a Wisconsin engine dealer. When I started working in his shop at about 14 the broken bolt was the job I all ways got.

Phil P
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:31:37 AM
55gasser 55gasser is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

OK, now that I am really confused on a cape chisels purpose.

Lets just go the cobalt left hand bit route. The bolt is a 3/8 so what size bit should I get for this???

I am probably making this more difficult than it should be but being in the head I had rather not mess up any more than I already have!!!

I like the sound of the welding a bolt to the stud but I am afraid I would weld it all to the head!!!!
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:11:16 AM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

Google cape chisel, you'll see samples. If going the welding route, I would tack a heavy flat washer to a piece of flat bar so I could hold it in place, position it over the bolt and weld it in place, weld a nut to the washer. The washer is easier to weld to the bolt than trying to weld through the deep nut. It would be difficult to weld it to the cast head, I don't think you have to worry about that.
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Old 05-27-2012, 11:35:38 AM
Stuhly Stuhly is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

After welding nut to bolt, be sure to let it cool off before trying to remove. As you heat up the bolt it swells inside the cast and crushes itself. After it cools off it should be loose.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:49:50 PM
J.B. Castagnos J.B. Castagnos is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 55gasser View Post
OK, now that I am really confused on a cape chisels purpose.
Lets just go the cobalt left hand bit route. The bolt is a 3/8 so what size bit should I get for this???

A 3/8" 16 bolt should use a 5/16th drill, you would have to be perfectly centered for this, I would try a 9/32".
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:08:13 AM
John C Walker John C Walker is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

Find a piece of 3/8 round stock, drill it first with your 5/16 drill bit, this will work to keep things centered when you start to dill. Personally I have had great luck welding a nut onto the bolt .Use a 1/2 inch nut that will give you room to weld inside and you will not hurt the head ,the weld will go to the steel stud before it will go to the cast head. The heat from the weld works to shrink the stud, and out it comes
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:59:06 PM
Bill Sherlock Bill Sherlock is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

I assume the head is cast iron? In that case you can melt the broken bolt out of the head with a torch. Cast iron has a lot higher melting temperature than the bolt so shouldn't be effected unless you get the torch too hot. Just go easy and apply just enough heat for the bolt to melt and then blow out. I had several broken frame bolts on a John Deere 4240 done that way by a friend after I broke an easy out in one of them. I just ran a tap through the threads afterwards to clean them up.

Bill
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:32:09 PM
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Craig A Craig A is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

Weld something to what's left.
If you aren't a good enough welder to get it welded without welding the stud to the block find someone who is......
In a case like yours I'd use a 1/2", or larger, nut so the flux from the welding rod has someplace to go plus you can see when you've welded to the edge of the stud.
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:23:02 AM
vdrive vdrive is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

[QUOTE=Craig A;774364]Weld something to what's left.
If you aren't a good enough welder to get it welded without welding the stud to the block find someone who is......
In a case like yours I'd use a 1/2", or larger, nut so the flux from the welding rod has someplace to go plus you can see when you've welded to the edge of the stud.[/QUOTE

Uses a center punch to mark the center of the remaining
bolt or stud. If the punch is not in the center just tilt the punch
and move the little punch mark untill its in the center.
Then drill it straight thru. start with a small drill and work your
way up to final diameter. If you drill it correctly, You will leave
only the small threads . Use a ice pick or some kind of pick to remove the tiny thread particals from the mating threads.
finish by cleaning threads with tap

Vdrive
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:07:28 PM
55gasser 55gasser is offline
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Default Re: Manifold bolt broke off in head!

UPDATE!!! I went the left hand cobalt bit route with great results!!! Center punched, drilled out, and removed the rest with pics and then run a tap thru to clean up. Thanks Guys for the info!!! Now I can get back to what I was doing.
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