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Wisconsin Engines

Wisconsin TF Fuel Pump Won't Prime (or Pump)


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  #1  
Old 06-05-2012, 10:50:35 PM
Mr. Martensite Mr. Martensite is offline
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Default Wisconsin TF Fuel Pump Won't Prime (or Pump)

Howdy folks,
I'm struggling a little bit getting the TF started.Its a fresh rebuild from the bottom up. Let me start with this:
new fuel pump, new fuel lines, new fuel filter, gas tank cleaned and interior coated, new sucker line in tank, gas with no ethanol, manual primer cleaned and replaced and functioning...

Whew...after repeated cranking (off and on 15 min), I still cannot see fuel in the glass bowl. With the fuel lines disconnected I can hear the diaphragm "pulsing" which I would expect it to draw enough vacuum to pull fuel.

Has anyone experienced a similar issue? Any thoughts on this?

Here's a few pics of current resto status...





---------- Post added at 09:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------


Wiscon TF 003 by rspoering77, on Flickr
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2012, 10:52:55 PM
Mr. Martensite Mr. Martensite is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)


Wiscon TF 001 by rspoering77, on Flickr


Wiscon TF 002 by rspoering77, on Flickr
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:32:52 PM
mikebramel mikebramel is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

Looks nice

Do you have a vacuum gauge? Sometimes they dont pump well dry, have to use a mityvac and then crank after
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Old 06-06-2012, 03:40:30 AM
Phil P Phil P is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

Hi

There are 2 things you need to know.

The first one is don’t run that engine very long without the front screen the ring around that screen is what makes the flywheel fins pump the proper amount of air. If you have put new rings in you could score a cylinder from lack of cooling.

The second thing I would do is loosen the bolts that hold the pump to the engine so you can see if it moves when you rotate the engine. With the bolts backed out several turns the pump should have visible movement when the camshaft raises the pump lever. You may have to rotate the engine thru 2 full turns to see this. You may have to take the fuel line to the carburetor off to do this.

If it does move then by rotating the engine until the pump arm is engage to the camshaft you can prime the pump by working it up and down on the loose bolts. Remember that you only get one pump stroke for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft.

Phil P
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Old 06-06-2012, 10:19:36 PM
Mr. Martensite Mr. Martensite is offline
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Question Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime/new restoration

Phil P, I appreciate the info on the screen...it's now installed. I have removed the fuel pump and verified it is being engaged by the camshaft...I think the key takeaway is that the 2 revs of crank = 1 pump of fuel pump.

mikebramel,
I appreciate the help...i have a mityvac and will give it a try...will the diaphragm be OK if I am pulling a vac downstream of fuel pump?
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  #6  
Old 06-07-2012, 06:09:23 AM
Phil P Phil P is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

Hi

Thanks for the note and you are welcome.

Just loosen the pump and work it up and down against the camshaft by hand. I have primed many this way.

Even if you have to remove the fuel line to the carburetor you will still fill the pump with fuel which makes it much more effective.

Another way is to remove the spark plugs and spin the engine with the crank. There is less time between pump strokes that way and the fuel is less likely to vaporize in the suction line.

Phil P
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:38:59 PM
Tencubed Tencubed is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

Quick way to prime a fuel pump is to simply put a rag on the fuel tanks fill tube and blow hard till gas is up to the carb.

Dry fuel pumps often don't pump well.

Mike
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Old 06-08-2012, 01:56:32 PM
Mr. Martensite Mr. Martensite is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

Well,

The pump is pumping fuel. Is does seem to be now flooding the carburetor while trying to start. i did manage to get it fired up and run it about 5 min last night and i adjusted the throttle too low and it died. After repeated cranking, I have fuel coming out the airfilter rubber tube (rubber hose between air filter and carburetor). Will let her set until this evening and try to get her fired up again.

Does anyone have recommendations about engine break-in? How long to run and what RPM?

Thanks!
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:39:32 PM
Tencubed Tencubed is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

I don't have a manual for a TF but the manual for the TH, THD and TJD engines has this on the inside of the front cover.

(all the following is a quote)

"Starting and operating of new engines"

"Careful breaking in of a new engine will greatly increase it's life and result in trouble-free operation. A factory test is not sufficient to establish the polished bearing surfaces, which are so necessary to the proper performance and long life of an engine. Neither is there a quick way to force the establishment of good bearing surfaces. These can only be obtained by running a new engine carefully and under reduced speeds and loads for a short time, as follows."

"First, be sure the engine is filled to the proper level with a good quality of engine oil, see "Grade of Oil" chart."

"Before a new engine is put to it's regular work, the engine should be operated at low idle speed (1000 to 1200 R.P.M.) for a half hour, without load. The R.P.M. should then be increased to engine operating speed, still without load, for an additional two hours."

"If at all possible, operate the engine at light loads for a period totaling about eight hours, before maximum load is applied. This will greatly increase engine life."

"The various bearing surfaces in a new engine have not been glazed, as they will be with continued operation, and it is in this period of "running in," that special care must be exercised, otherwise the highly desired glaze will never be obtained. A new bearing surface that has been damaged by carelessness will be ruined forever."

(end of quote from the manual)

All punctuation and such is copied as written.

Mike
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:17:28 PM
Mr. Martensite Mr. Martensite is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

tencubed,

I seem to recall reading this somewhere, just couldn't find it. I appreciate your efforts in getting this. It is exactly what I am looking for. You reckon light loads would equate to smallest rod on lowest setting on the welder? Just curious...that would be a lot of rods at a total of 8 hrs

Thanks again!
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:00:20 AM
Phil P Phil P is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

Hi

The folks that followed that procedure commonly suffered from oil consumption problems until the next overhaul or until the engine was disassembled and the cylinders were “Rehashed” with a cylinder hone. The slow running would “glaze” the cylinders and when we took them apart the cylinder walls were shiny like a mirror and the rings showed no ware at all. We would remove the mirror finish with a hone using medium grit stones and reassemble the engine using the same rings. Break in running under load would then stop the oil consumption in about 3 or 4 hours.

The folks that put the engine to work under normal loads didn’t have this problem.

A second thing that would cause this was the use of”detergent” oil. Non-detergent oil is something that is now near impossible to purchase. At the same time the oil’s today are not near as high in detergent as the oil’s were many years ago but I still wouldn’t use a multi weight or synthetic oil.

Phil P
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:01:26 AM
Tencubed Tencubed is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

I was taught to use non-detergent oil for break in oil years ago. Still do it and have good results.

Buy it in gallon jugs at the local auto supply. Car Quest and Napa.

Mike

---------- Post added at 06:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tencubed View Post
I was taught to use non-detergent oil for break in oil years ago. Still do it and have good results.

Buy it in gallon jugs at the local auto supply. Car Quest and Napa.

Mike

Silly to have to quote your own post but should have mentioned the Wisconsin manual says to use the same grade of oil for break in as suggested for running.

30 weight MS grade of Mobil is recommended for summer use in the engines listed.

Mike
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Old 06-09-2012, 04:34:55 PM
Phil P Phil P is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

Hi

The operation of the engine at low BMEP will commonly result in unwanted oil consumption. This has been proven over and over.

After the first 30 minute run-in to determine no oil leaks and proper engine cooling put a load on it. This brings the BMEP up so the rings wear in to the cylinder.

Phil P
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:57:05 PM
ti-jean ti-jean is offline
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Default Re: Wisconsin TF fuel pump wont prime (or pump)

here if it can help you

http://www.wiengines.com/public/stat...nsin/te_tf.pdf


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