Generators and Electric Motors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Vintage Electrical Equipment > Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion Antique Generators and Old Electric Motors: Questions and answers about restoring and showing old power generation systems.

Generators & Electric Motors General Discussion

1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?


this thread has 12 replies and has been viewed 4133 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-11-2002, 09:10:17 PM
Don C. Wiley
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Ok you expert "Ark'rs", how many of you have seen one of these or have one in your collection. I have had this one for about four years now and I have "attracted" two more.

The tag says: Full Wave Pat'd 1916 - Magnetic Rectifier - Volts/110 - Cycle/60 ----- Charging Circuit - Volts 6 - Amperes 7 - Type 16. The France Mfg. Col. Cleveland, Ohio U.S.A.

I'm looking for any literature or manuals for these things. I have "restored" this one and it works well.

Thanks for any assistance on this.

"DELCO DON" Southern Illinois


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-11-2002, 10:53:11 PM
Franz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Have you tried looking in Audells Electrical Guide?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-11-2002, 11:13:19 PM
Franz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Let me correct myself, Magnetic, actually Electro-magnetic rectifiers are described in Hawkins Electrical Guide, books #4 & #6. My set is copywrited 1914, so it may be different in other issues.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-12-2002, 01:24:32 PM
Don C. Wiley
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Franz;

I don't have the books you speak of, but I have the "Machinery's Encyclopedia, dated 1917. The only rectifier they talk about is a mercury tube type. I didn't know they had such a thing in 1917.

I think a brother-in-law has a Audells book on machineing or something like that, but not the one on electricity.

Thanks for your help. I already know the principles of the "machine" but I would like to have advertising literature or company sales literature for this specific brand.

"DELCO DON" Southern Illinois
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-12-2002, 11:58:56 PM
Franz
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Don, if you like, I'll copy the sections of Hawkins and send them to you. Have you applied AC to it yet? I'm wondering if it was built for 25hz or 60 hz. From what I read looking for the information last nite, Edison seems to have originated the design. You mite want to check Ebay, Hawkins Electrical Guide sets turn up regularly, and don't do a lot of $$$.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2002, 11:18:39 AM
Don C. Wiley
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Franz;

The tag says 60 cycles and yes I have pluged it in to my 110/60 cycle house power and it works, well it vibrates and produces 5.5 volts on the output. Not quite enough to charge a 6 volt battery, but I don't plan on using it to charge batteries any way. They made no provisions for a filter (maybe they didn't know how to make a filter) so I'm sure if I hooked it to an oscilloscope it would be pulsating DC.

I guess a lot of the early rectifiers had no type of filters.

Thanks for the E-bay info I'll check it out.

"DELCO DON" Southern Illinois
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-14-2002, 03:08:02 AM
Russ Hughes
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

When used to charge a battery, a filter is not required. Of course if the battery was running a radio while being charged, you probably couldn't hear any stations because of the radio noise being generated by the magnetic rectifier.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2002, 07:29:45 PM
shermwolf
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Don That unit is a 6 volt battery charger.Your meter reads the RMS value (or thereabouts depending on it's design).The peak value of that very distorted square wave/sine wave is about 7 volts and that will charge a 6 v0lt battery. The battery is in effect a HUGE capacitor and it's voltage will rise to the peak value of the output waveform.

I also have several mechanical rectifier battery chargers. The problem these things experience come about when an arc occurs and sustains itself when a point opens. When the contacts on the opposite pole close you have a short across the transformer thru the arc and pretty soon the points are welded together. If a storage battery is connected it also becmes shorted out and the next thing is a lot of smoke.

When using a solid state or mercury arc rectifers the inverse peak voltage ratings are much greater than the output voltage and unless the rectfier is destroyed and shorted there is no way both rectifiers can conduct at the same time.

The mechanical rectifier however can conduct on both poles and self destruct.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2002, 09:38:29 PM
Don C. Wiley
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Sherm;

Thanks for the information. I don't plan on charging a battery with it any way. I didn't think they could be very efficient with all those vibrating contacts. I have one that has the spring that carries the switching contacts broken. I suppose fatigue set in and it just broke from too much bending.

They are kind of interesting "artifacts" none the less.

"DELCO DON" Southern Illinois
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-17-2002, 05:54:03 AM
Gus Simms
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Don, for what it's worth, I have one just like it but no info either.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-21-2002, 06:16:42 PM
Max Koone
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

I haven't seen one of these but for charging batteries, especially wet lead/sulphuric acid cells you do not want a filter. Pure DC tends to coat the plates with bubbles of gas which slows the charging rate and gives uneven charging. I have plans somewhere for a battery charger which every few minutes would give a reverse voltage (discharge) pulse to the battery to push the bubbles off the plates so they would rise and dissipate through the vent caps leaving the plates relatively clear of bubbles.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-21-2002, 09:24:42 PM
shermwolf
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

Max, I think you may be wrong about the pure DC not effectivly charging a lead acid battery. Several examples of pure DC chargers are;

The alternator on a car produces DC by the rectification of 3 phase AC. The waveform of this rectified output is essentially pure DC.

Every Telephone central office has a large bank of lead acid batteries to provide backup power. The battery chargers used in these systems put out highly filtered DC. This is required so as not to put any interfering AC hum on the telephone talk circuits.

It's true that most automotive 120 v AC chargers put out a pulsating DC voltage, but this will charge the battery just as well as filtered DC and save the cost of the filter.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-23-2002, 05:50:32 PM
Russ Hughes
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1916 Magnetic Rectifier - Info?

I have been using a Raytelco (brand name) commercial battery charger to charge the batteries in my boat for the last 10 years or so. This unit was designed to charge batteries in a remote radio communications site. The output of this unit is highly regulated and filtered so as to not cause electrical noise to be transmitted through the radio equipment.

The regulation is at 1% and the AC ripple on the DC output is 1/10,000 of a volt, or 10 millivolts. This unit has been in service continously aboard my boat for 10, or so, years or more, and I have had absolutely no problems with charging the four size 27 wet cell ships batteries, all connected in parallel.

Solar cells are commonly used to charge batteries in remotely located railroad signal and crossing lights, etc. Solar cells put out basically a pure DC current for charging these batteries. The railroads seem to have no problem with charging their remote batteries with pure DC.

While automotive alternators put out direct current, there is an AC sounding ripple in the output that sometimes gets into radio equipment that causes a whine in the audio. While this may affect the radio equipment, it has no effect on the battery charging function.

The old type battery chargers that used one each Tungar rectifier tube (bulb) to charge radio and car batteries, produced a half wave DC charging current. Every half cycle, or 60 times per second, there would be a pulse of electricity delivered to the battery. This was a function of the charging circuit itself and had nothing to do with the battery charging operation itself.

Sometimes, people would analyze the output of battery chargers and assume that there must have been a reason for the electrical characteristics of the battery charger. The wrong assumptions were frequently made and the story made the rounds and became folk lore that stuck around.

At the same time, today there are a few manufacturers making battery chargers that are designed to provide a pulse like charge to the battery. Most of these have been for charging Ni-Cad batteries where certain claims for charging efficiency have been made. I don't know if there is any basis for these claims of better battery charging, but I suspect tha the benifits, if any, are not worth the trouble it takes to produce such charging currents.

As far as these theories are concerned, I have the feeling that it is a little like claiming that if you pump the handle on the gas nozzel when filling your car at the gas station, rather than just holding it open in a steady manner, that you will oxygenate the gas flow into the gas tank, and get better mileage, or more power, or something like that.

At least that is my opinion, for whatever it may be worth.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Magnetic Dipstick scoops Onan Generators 9 11-24-2016 01:44:44 PM
IHC 1916 2.5HP Muffler info NalanZ Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 6 01-14-2013 03:32:20 AM
Magnetic chuck Steve Holbrook Machine Shop and Tool Talk 1 12-09-2012 10:07:06 PM
Magnetic engine net Ron Davis YouTube Old Iron Videos 5 02-06-2009 01:51:30 PM
Magnetic force Franz Antique Engine Archives 2 10-03-2001 07:43:34 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:16:03 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277