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Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?


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  #21  
Old 03-29-2005, 09:52:26 AM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

To get the flywheel off just put a piece of wood against the flywheel end of the crankshaft and hit it a couple of times with a hammer. That should knock it loose. You can use one or two large screwdrivers to pry up the valve springs and then pliers to pull the retainers out. I don't have a spring compressor and this is what I do. It is best a two person job, though; one with the screwdrivers and the other with the pliers.
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  #22  
Old 03-29-2005, 10:09:00 AM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

You don't need an expensive flywheel puller. There is a simple tool used for removing them, after removing nut just put tool over end of crankshaft and tap with hammer. It looks like adeep well socket. May be available at K or Walmart stores.Cost a couple bucks.Dick.
  #23  
Old 03-29-2005, 10:39:29 AM
Leonard Keifer Leonard Keifer is offline
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

You can make do with screw drivers and such for everything but putting the piston back in. Small ring compressors aren't too expensive. If you have a JC Whitney catalog (or once you get one) there should still be a little section in the tools part of the catalog that lists small engine repair tools. Another soource of tools is www.Foley-Belsaw.com but they're kind of expensive on some things. Look around at some flea markets for used engine repair tools, you'd be suprised what you might find for a little bit of nothing.

Another way to get the flywheel off (pullers not recommended, good way to split a stubborn flywheel) is to put the nut back on the crank until it is flush with the end of the crank, then place a piece of oak or a piece of brass or lead against the end of the crank and whack it with a hammer. If the flywheel is really stuck on you might have to have another person pry on the back with a large screwdriver while you whack the end of the crank.

The key word on any restoration project is patience, nothing spoils your day more than getting impatient with a stuck piston and hitting too hard. I now have a Briggs FH piston as a paper weight because I got impatient and ended up knocking a big hole in it! Live and learn.
  #24  
Old 03-29-2005, 10:48:20 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Dad showed me how to remove a flywheel nut without having to clamp the wheel or use an impact wrench. Just put the correct size box-end wrench on the nut and give it a belt or two with a brass hammer.

Dad also taught me to knock off Briggs flywheels and old Ford rear drums by removing the nut then screwing it back on backwards just 'til the end of the shaft is flush with the face of the nut.

A couple of sharp raps with a brass hammer is usually all it takes for a Briggs, etc. The Fords sometimes took a rap from a sledge hammer.

Nice thing about srewing the nut on backwards is that, if you accidentally put a ding on the nut or shaft, you can use the nut to chase the threads straight again.

Good luck and take care - Elden
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  #25  
Old 03-29-2005, 11:24:30 AM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Dave,
like many other Briggs & Stratton collectors my first engine was also a 5s it was crank start and made in 1952 it is on a Firestone Reel Mower which was my grandfathers. The exhaust valve of my engine was stuck straight up when I got it and it had been for a while, so I took it to a local machine shop and had the face of the valve cut as well as the seats cut and valve ground, (now ,I do most of my cutting and grinding of valves) I then bought a gasket set from John Smith of Smiths Service (JKS@frontiernet.net) then I cleaned the engine up and re-gasketed it . Elden is right you don't need a puller, all you need to do is spin the nut to the end of the shaft and bang on it with a ball peen or small sledge , also get a rubber mallet and tap around the flywheel its self a few good taps should loosen it. Like others said don't try to stick a screw driver between the fins or try to pry against the mag plate both are soft metal and both will break, I learned this the hard way , way back when, but still flywheels are cheap for this model unlike F-series or a flywheel for a model P (which are like $ 200 each) Once you get this engine running, you will just want to find more to get running , it's a great hobby you will enjoy it for years to come, especially as a father son activity, I know I do, I got my father involved in restoring Fairbanks Morse farm engines and it a great way to spend time together.
Another place where you can get some parts for this and others is CPC Reproductions, Charles Camera the owner of this company does great work he recently rebuilt a model P Briggs cooling fan for me, he has all sorts of parts new (nos) used and reproduction , his email is CPCRepro@webtv.net I highly recommend him
Anyway's have fun, good luck and I hope this info helps
~Jonathan
  #26  
Old 03-29-2005, 11:53:28 AM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Don't forget...a screw type radiator hose clamp works great for a ring compressor!
  #27  
Old 03-29-2005, 01:00:20 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Be careful prying on the back of the flywheel. The magneto plate behind it can easily be broken.

Also I believe you asked about the piston being to the side. On these engines the spark plug is not directly above the piston. When looking down on the engine from the flywheel side the piston is on the right, exhaust valve on upper left , and intake valve on lower left.
  #28  
Old 03-30-2005, 09:24:42 AM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Free at Last.. Free at Last... the piston is now FREE ...
yeehaaaa ... Life is Good ... We're SMOKIN' ... "Git er Dun"..

Can't tell were elated ... can you . I was sweating this milestone for sure.

A big thanks to Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) .. Doug Kimball and the other folks who confirmed Doug's suggestion of this miracle oil. Damn good stuff!.. Whoot!.. I'm a Marvel Mystery Oil lifer now.

Questions===================================
1. I'm thinking of putting several ounces of MMO into the crankcase and inverting the engine overnight... just for a good measure. Any thoughts ... good & bad on this?

2. The gas tank innards are rusty.. but the metal on the bottom is really sound. I've thought about rattling a bunch of nuts & stuff in it to free the rust & then do some electrolysis on it... but my big question .. am I just tooting in the wind? Once it all said & done.. I'll have a de-rusted tank... with rust pitting still inside. If I try to use it then.. won't some of the stuff still flake off or otherwise cause problems if I use it. Remember... I'm a dummy on this stuff

3. Then there is the carb... it may have a part or two missing but I don't know.
Can you folks eyeball it and let me know if you see anything missing... then what do I do: Photos here:
http://community.webshots.com/album/305571570UGSBIF

Is this carb an original 5s carb or is it a later model.

========================================

My dream would be to get an original 5s used carb + an oil bath breather.. I think that would also mean gas tank.. as mine is set at an angle to the block rather than paralell as on the OEM tanks.

I've twisted your ears enough for one day...

Keep any and all advice (good & bad) comming as we are soaking all this up like a sponge.

As always... THANK ALL OF YOU for your help thus far. I've seen forums & folks on other forums elsewhere... but NOTHING compares to you wonderfull folks here and your outpouring of support and excellent advice for such green horns.

Bye..
Dave
  #29  
Old 03-30-2005, 10:30:10 AM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

That is the correct carb for that model. The gas tank is off a vertical shaft engine like the 6BHS. Check the link below; it is the one sitting on the cement block. Also a good pic of a restored 5S further up the page.

http://www.asecc.com/gallery/page9.html#JENSON1
  #30  
Old 03-30-2005, 12:42:49 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Using a handful of nuts and bolts works well in a rusty tank as does a piece of wire chain from a swingset. (I like chain because it's easier to get out when I'm done). If there seems to be a lot of stale gas and/or varnish in the tank you'll find acetone to be a good solvent but ya gotta be really careful since it's so flammable.
Personally, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in that tank as I'm sure you'll want to get the correct tank on it soon after you get it running anyway. They're not hard to come by and not too expensive either. Sometimes it's easiest to buy another engine for the parts.
Is the engine rolling over smoothly or still kinda stiff? If it's turning over nicely I wouldn't worry about it. When you take the cylinder head off you can just put a coating of SAE 30 on the cylinder wall and be good to go. As to turning the engine upside down, I think I'd skip that step until I had the oil pan off and cleaned. Remember that nasty stuff you drained out of it the other day? What's left would be dripping into the cylinder. Naaa...don't think I want that.
If you don't have the head off yet I think that would be my next step. Ya gotta see where you stand with the valves and cylinder wall.

Thanks Harry!
  #31  
Old 03-30-2005, 01:11:00 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Neale and others,

Does the carb look like it is all there?

I've already ordered gaskets... but I have a dumb question.... but
I think I know the answer... once I pull the head or other gasketed parts... the gasket will be gone & need to be repaced .. right?

The tag says use SAE20 (mobil I think). Is this weight what you folks run and is Penzoil good for it or use something else? Where to get?

Neale... on the tank... will it run ok until I get a replacement tank with the current one being cleaned out & done with electrolysis? Dumb question.. what sort of gas pickup tube does the carb have going into the tank... is there a fuel filter of any sort?

Spark plug... what brand and model number?

A big thank you...

Dave
  #32  
Old 03-30-2005, 01:12:32 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

There is a 5S tank on ebay. Just search "briggs 5s".
  #33  
Old 03-30-2005, 01:31:18 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Original was Champion J8. This is now the J8C.

I use Penzoil 30 in mine. Is this correct? It works for me, that's all I can say. I can't find 20.

Use low octane unleaded. This is what is recommended. Don't use lead, it will just add more deposits in the combustion camber.

If you are careful you can save the gaskets but if you have new ones it is best to replace them.

I have some specs in the repair manual and will post them when I find them.
  #34  
Old 03-30-2005, 01:52:06 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

MikeS

I saw the tank + the 5s carb on e-bay... ... deep pockets are tugging
at me

I've got one of the BS antique repair manual repros on the way.. so don't post specs until I have a look there .. will see if they are there.

The plug on it is a CJ8.. is the one you ment.. or is there a J8C as you noted.


Thank you,
Dave
  #35  
Old 03-30-2005, 02:17:38 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Dave,
1. the correct plug is a J8C (though it will run on most anything that fits)
2. the carb appears to be all there with the exception of the throttle/governor linkage (don't sweat the small stuff yet)
3. there is a fuel pick-up tube on the bottom side of the carb with a fitting on the end that has a fine screen on the bottom and a checkvalve of some kind inside. These checkvalves have a way of disappearing or disolving but you'll need to make sure that it's not stuck in the closed position if it is there. The engine will most likely run without a checkvalve but will be a bit harder to start if the tank is low and may not want to idle too well. Again, acetone is your best bet for unsticking the checkvalve and cleaning out the pick-up tube if it's clogged.(Remember to be careful with that stuff!)
4. The fuel pickup isn't going to care what kind of tank it's getting the fuel from.
5. I would be surprised if the head gasket wasn't reusable but most likely the other gaskets will break when you separate the parts. They are pretty simple gaskets though and can be hand cut from some gasket paper available at most auto parts stores.
  #36  
Old 03-30-2005, 02:24:37 PM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

The one gasket you have to make sure you get right is the mag plate. This sets the end play on the crankshaft. The repair manual will tell you how to measure it and how much there should be. I think you can use a feeler gauge on these engines.

The govonor link is just a metal "wire" that goes from the air vane to the throttle plate. Just make sure you get it the right length. If they aren't run under load you can just adjust the speed with the idle speed screw. This is how I run mine that don't run any equipment.
  #37  
Old 03-30-2005, 02:25:40 PM
Leonard Keifer Leonard Keifer is offline
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Don't get suckered into bidding too much for a 5S tank on ebay. They show up frequently, the same tank fits a 6S so look for those too. Also, check local flea markets, yard sales and engine shows, you may luck into a real cheap engine or tank.

Your current tank will work fine until you find the correct one. When you get the correct tank you'll also need to get the little straight muffler. I wouldn't pay more than $2 or 3 for one of those. You might find a muffler at Walmart or K-Mart.

If head gaskets are undamaged you can use them again. For other gaskets I but different thickness gasket paper at Pep Boys or some other auto parts store and cut my own.
  #38  
Old 03-31-2005, 07:41:44 AM
Chuck Parcher (Ks.) Chuck Parcher (Ks.) is offline
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Sure do like that swing set chain idea. I always use white vinigar with old nuts and bolts. have even used nails. I fill the tank about half full of vinigar and let her set. then I use to add nuts, bolts, or nails. From now on it is going to be that wire chain. After going through this process I flush with #1 diesel, or Kerosene. then flush out with a little gas. It's going to be a little tricky, but try to slosh whatever chain, nuts bolts, nails, and whatever solution on the inside top of the tank, as condensation will cause the top inside of the tank to rust also. acetone works good, but the fumes always get to me. Vinagar definatly stinks also, but if you get any on you it won't hurt anything. White vinager even deluted still has an acid that will deal with the rust.

Although not original a J19LM, or RJ19LM plug is almost indestructable, and they are usually hard to foul.. Clean and save the original plug for shows.

GOOD IDEAS: Swing set chain, Clothes line through the spark plug,

The rapping on the flywheel end, and nut is the way I do it on all small engines with a very slight pressure on the back of the fly-wheel. Remember it's not the key on the crankshaft that holds the fly-wheel, but the 7 degree taper on the crank, and what ever it is on the fly-wheel I guess 7 degrees also, but don't know. The KEY only keeps these engines in time.

Clean out the crank case by filling with some diesel let it set, and then drain. repeat until all the GOO is out then fill with oil. One more thing. 30 wt oil will work fine but remember to use non-detergent oil. (no oil filter, no detergent) detergent oil will hold dirt and particals in suspension. Non-detergent will let the junk settle to the bottom of the crankcase and can be drained out. This has been discussed on this site many times over many years. General consensus-- no filter- no detergent oil.. You can get 30 wt. non-detergent at WAL-MART, at least I can here. and other places like The Dollar General Store, if you have one.


Good Luck.......CHUCK
p.s. Swore I was'nt going to do this anymore, but sure did miss it.....
  #39  
Old 03-31-2005, 09:07:16 AM
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

Doesn't the Briggs manual recommend detergent oil? I would rather use a good brand over something from Wal-Mart.
  #40  
Old 03-31-2005, 11:07:33 AM
Leonard Keifer Leonard Keifer is offline
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Default Re: Briggs & Stratton 5s - Where to start restoring?

I think the detergent vs non-detergent oil question has been discussed on here before. Seems to me its a personal choice, especially if all you're doing is running the engine a few times a season at a show. The important think is to NOT use multiviscosity oil.
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