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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Classic Old Engine Photos


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  #581  
Old 02-11-2018, 05:40:19 PM
Len Spoelman Len Spoelman is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

More pictures from "Olds Gas Power Photo Album". More type G engines. Last one, 100 Hp, Electric Light and Power, Effingham, IL?
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  #582  
Old 02-11-2018, 06:03:55 PM
Len Spoelman Len Spoelman is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

More pictures from "Olds Gas Power Photo Album". More type G engines. First one, 18 Hp G, American Water Works, Whitesboro, Tex? Deep Well Pump. Last picture, machining big base.
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  #583  
Old 02-11-2018, 06:19:41 PM
Len Spoelman Len Spoelman is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

More pictures from "Olds Gas Power Photo Album". Last ones. Big flywheel. 1.5 Hp with pump setups.
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  #584  
Old 02-11-2018, 07:31:30 PM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

I really like the setup where they are machining the base in a lathe.
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  #585  
Old 02-11-2018, 11:46:35 PM
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Chris Epping Chris Epping is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Amazing pictures Len - thanks for posting!
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  #586  
Old 02-12-2018, 08:21:21 AM
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Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Len, Great photos, thanks !
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  #587  
Old 02-14-2018, 07:31:00 AM
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Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Here is a really interesting image of a crank shaft and the apparatus required to machine the crankshaft of a large blowing engine in place.


.

.
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  #588  
Old 02-15-2018, 01:38:47 PM
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Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Here is an interesting photo. I have no information on where it was taken. My apologies if it was previously posted here. Im not sure what the engine is in the background??

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  #589  
Old 02-15-2018, 02:34:39 PM
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S.Upham S.Upham is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Interesting photo Wayne. I can't identify either engine but the horizontal seems like a small engine for 8 spoke flywheels and an odd location for a pulley mount.
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  #590  
Old 02-15-2018, 07:15:36 PM
RedHeadFred RedHeadFred is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Here are a couple pictures from the rest of the big twin tandem. I'm not sure where I found them a few years ago on the web.
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  #591  
Old 02-15-2018, 08:20:12 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Upham View Post
Interesting photo Wayne. I can't identify either engine but the horizontal seems like a small engine for 8 spoke flywheels and an odd location for a pulley mount.
Is it possibly an opposed cylinder engine?
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  #592  
Old 02-15-2018, 10:53:19 PM
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Brian Triebner Brian Triebner is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

The casting under the crank looks Otto and the 8 spoke flywheel in the 50 hp up have 4 bolt pulleys, maybe.
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  #593  
Old 02-16-2018, 12:25:23 AM
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Chris Epping Chris Epping is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

I would second the Otto vote. Looks like about ~ 50 HP size.
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  #594  
Old 02-16-2018, 05:43:26 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

The engine in the background in post 588 is indeed a big Otto. I can't tell you the size but it is set up like our 50 and 60hp Otto's. They both have the same size flywheels. 6 1/2'. I wish the generator weren't in the way.
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  #595  
Old 02-16-2018, 11:39:53 AM
Greg Johnson Greg Johnson is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

The photo is the interior of the Mount Lowe power station in Pasadena, California. There were 2 big Otto's and the Edison Bi-Polar dynamo that supplied power to the tramway that went up Mt Lowe. There is a website describing the system that can be found on Goggle. Remains of the system can still be seen on the mountain.
The Ottos were removed quite early and said to be used to pump water for irrigation.
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  #596  
Old 02-16-2018, 07:19:18 PM
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Greg, Thanks for the heads up on the location of the power house. Here is the reverse angle.

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  #597  
Old 02-16-2018, 09:05:18 PM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Getting back to the BIG engine in posts # 587 & 599 (thanks Wayne and RedHeadFred!).

These show a William Tod Co. twin tandem reversing steam engine, i.e. a rolling mill engine as used to drive a blooming mill or similar. Perhaps 10 - 15,000 hp.

The photos were taken in the Tod erecting hall at Youngstown when the engine was new (one photo is dated 1908).

In post # 587, the main journal on the crankshaft is being finish turned.

This photo was discussed on the Practical Machinist forum some years back. Rick Rowlands (who owns a mighty Tod rolling mill engine) has many original drawings, including many Mesta drawings. From one of the Mesta drawings of a crankshaft for a 35,000 hp reversing engine (which was still working in the 1990's), it was possible to figure out what was happening in the Tod photo.

Here is the sequence of operations for a similar Mesta crankshaft, although it has an outer main bearing on both ends of the crankshaft, unlike the Tod:

"Method of Machining & Assembling Crankshaft":

The Mesta crank is assembled up with the centre main shaft, crank pins and crank arms (webs) all finish machined.

The main shafts on each end of the crank shaft however, are not finish machined except for the diameter that is fitted to the crank arm.

The final machining of the outer-most main bearing journals is done with the crankshaft resting in the inner main bearings. I am guessing that there is no bearing shell fitted (to the outer main) while that finish turning operation is taking place.

I wonder if that is a bar between the crank arms to keep them from flexing while this operation is taking place? There are 6" diameter holes in the Mesta crank arms which might have been used for this (sheer speculation). (Edit 17/2/18, the Tod photo shows a brace of some sort attached to the crankshaft counterweights, my guess is to control flex. Also balance weights have been added to the crank pin)

Material used:

Crankpins: 4340 steel (high tensile, those who have machined it know it is tough stuff)

Main shafts: 1045 steel, heat treated. (medium or high tensile steel, a step up from mild steel)

Crank arms: cast steel

Mainshafts and crankpins have a .030” shrink fit. The coupling taking the drive to the mill has a .025” shrink fit (on a 28” diameter shaft).

Here are the PM threads, however some of the photos have disappeared:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ournal-147693/

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...-lathe-112325/

Last edited by Peter Short; 02-16-2018 at 09:17:05 PM.
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  #598  
Old 02-16-2018, 10:12:44 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Thanks Wayne for the backside picture of the Ottos. I'm pretty sure they are 50's. Also missing from the engine from that angle is the cast iron air tank and the air starting mechanisms like our 50 and 60 has. I find it interesting that the pulley is as large as the flywheel. The pulley on our 60 is big but not that big. It looks more "normal". We didn't get a pulley with the 50. It had a homemade pulley they kept making bigger and bigger until it was bigger than the flywheel. They didn't have much luck making power in the high elevations of Colorado so they pushed the engine over the side of the mountain and replaced it with a steam engine.
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  #599  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:17:41 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

As I look closer at the 2nd Otto picture I noticed that the back side flywheels of both engines don't have a flywheel size pulley attached to them. That is an integrated flywheel rim/pulley. Very interesting how details change on the bigger screen of the computer vs the cell phone. Pretty cool.
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  #600  
Old 02-17-2018, 12:23:13 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
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Default Re: Classic Old Engine Photos

Jeff, Notice that that side of the flywheel don't have the bosses to support a pulley anyway? I'm surprise with all the OTTOs at Rollag you don't have one of these flywheels (or maybe you do?)
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