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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Broken Sub Base: Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld


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  #1  
Old 01-26-2011, 02:26:16 PM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Broken Sub Base: Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Bought this Stover 4hp K series engine with one of the 4 ears of the subbase cracked off and missing.

I plan on molding a new piece and having one cast and then cast iron welding it on.

See picture of break, I'm not sure if I should make the piece as jagged is or grind it flat in a line. What do you think?

I made negative of the outside last night with plaster of paris. Turns out corner diagonal is exactly the same as the broken side. I plan on making the inside tonight and then will put the two pieces on the broken side and make the final piece that I will then send to the caster.

Final piece will only be about 2 inches long by 1.5 inches high. Do you think I have to worry about shrinkage much?

Thanks!!!!
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  #2  
Old 01-26-2011, 03:54:57 PM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Cast iron shrinks at 1/8 in per foot. If they wiggle the pattern a little to get it out of the sand mold, that should take care of what you need. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:06:39 PM
Jeff Smith Jeff Smith is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Why not just form it in steel and braze it on? Once attached, clean it up with a grinder and run a needle scaler over it a while and it will look just like the casting.

I don't see how you can get iron cast with what you are using for a pattern, they require patterns to be constructed a certain way for their sand molds, and then trying to weld that into place seems more trouble and work than just making it with steel.

We have many engines with repairs that we brazed in and needle scaled and if I did not show you where the repair is, you would have a hard time seeing the repair, even on the items we didn't paint (after they were covered with grease and oil over time).
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:24:27 PM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

The piece in plaster you see is only 1/2 of what I will put on the side that is broken and then use pour the final piece (the part that is missing).

I bought a 60$ piece of cast iron from mcmaster and my brother was supposed to cut it out at work on his edm but he hasn't gotten to it and that was 8 months ago.

Part that is broken off is an inch thick. Would require quite a but of grinding and cutting to get it look right and still not be perfect. I'll post pictures of the additional molds and my process.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:41:52 AM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

I made the other side of the mold last night. Tonight I will put both of the negative molds onto the broken corner and pour the final piece which will be sent to the caster. Working much better than I expected. Plaster of Paris sets up really quickly.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:56:31 AM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

All you need is some duct tape and bailing wire.
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:17:56 PM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

I thought about just bolting her down with 3 lugs and it would probably be fine but I tend to worry too much.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:26:06 PM
HBurk HBurk is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Duct tape maybe. Don't see a need for any bailin wire. That would be overkill.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:14:29 AM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

davetexas,

that is a quality repair. curious how many hours you will have into making the molds?
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:23:24 PM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

I had a similar problem with a large Galloway years ago, before this site was invented. It was my first engine. I cast the opposite corner with plaster of paris and then made a lead mold from that. Used the mold as a pattern and sent it to the foundry. A friend brazed the casting in and painted over the fix.
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:41:03 AM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

I'm finished making the final mold, just need to final sand it and put a little more filler on it to make it perfect.

Really wasn't too bad. Maybe an 1.5 hours on the outside and an hour on the inside. Cleaned them up a little and then clamped them to the broken side and poured the inside. I used vasoline as a release agent and it also filled the couple of small holes on the patterns so I didn't have to touch up the outside and inside patters. I'll post pictures tonight or tomorrow, didnt' bring them to work with me.
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:59:17 PM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Ok here are the pics of the final casting.

1.Ready to pour with previous 2 negative molds made.
2. Poured
3. Final piece from upside down
4. Final piece where it should be

I know that there was probably some shrinkage in the plaster of paris but the part fits up pretty darn good and I'm adding a little body filler on it all around to smooth it up. Now to send it to the caster.

I was thinking of using Ray Olson, is he still around or is there someone else that you would recommend to do a good job in a relatively short time.
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Old 02-02-2011, 05:03:24 PM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Last two pics.
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:33:49 PM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Depending on how long it is before you need it, I'd be willing to give it a shot for you. I could probably have it cast and back to you in a week or so, just pay shipping both ways, and flat rate is pretty cheap. Doesn't look to be a horribly difficult casting.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:40:24 PM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Tell me more. Can you do it in cast iron?

More than happy to pay shipping and for your time.

Can you send me a PM with your shipping address?
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:57:59 PM
OddDuck OddDuck is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Forgot to say in the PM, but yes, cast iron. Glad I can help.
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:59:00 PM
DaveTexas DaveTexas is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Casting from OddDuck should be here in a day or two.

Called a shop in town and they quoted me $250 to even try and weld it and $1000 if it has to go in their furnace.

I may see if a buddy can help me weld it. I've got a torch and mig welder but leary to mig weld it even with preheating and peening and I don't have any brazing materials nor have I ever brazed. I'm an expert a sweating copper fittings, is it similar?

If all else fails I'll clean it really good and JB Weld it

I've got a show to go to on the 26th and can't not show up with an engine again!
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:45:04 PM
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

I've had good luck with nickle welding rods. Don't have to preheat either.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:22:33 PM
OddDuck OddDuck is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

Bondo and paint will hide all sins... I hope they work for you, I shipped them priority mail so they will be there by the end of the week. Can't wait to see the repair!
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:40:20 AM
Merv C Merv C is offline
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Default Re: Broken Sub Base : Mold, Cast, Cast Iron Weld

[QUOTE=DaveTexas;620986]

Called a shop in town and they quoted me $250 to even try and weld it and $1000 if it has to go in their furnace.:ee

That is a rip off.
That job would take about an hour. I did one about six month ago exactly the same as yours, but I did have the broken bit. I used nickel rods, short beads and peening with no preheating but alowing it to cool between beads. worked fine
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