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Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start


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  #1  
Old 01-25-2011, 10:38:54 PM
ptschum ptschum is offline
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Default Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

Was running the generator this last weekend to give us power for the furnace when it shut down after about an hour and a half. It would crank over but not start. On a whim I tried to pull start it by switching to hand start and it started and ran. When I switched back to elec start it quit again. It's still generating power but the amp meter shows that it is discharging heavily while it is running.
I think it is designed this way, but when the switch is in hand start the stop switch doesn't do anything.

So, any thoughts on where to begin?
500K-3R/1F
serial 300834699
120/240 PH1, PF1 60hz
Data 5cck3c1a

Thanks - Tom
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  #2  
Old 01-25-2011, 11:44:19 PM
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Talking Re: 5cck runs in hand start but not elec start

You have lost the power to the Engine Control System, which is also the Starting Battery Charging System. Very Likely the Battery Charge Current Limiting Resistor, has gone OPEN. It is a Big Brown Chocolate Bar looking thing.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:28:36 PM
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

More like a big tootsie roll under the band on the genend. It opens unit shuts down.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:14:47 PM
Kimbra Dean Kimbra Dean is offline
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

It's really hard to argue with BT & Billy but I think they are thinking about later model CCK's. I don't think your generator has the resistor under the band on the generator. It does however have two somewhat shorter tootsie rolls in the control box on top.

Like BT said you have lost power to the engine control system. Could be one or both resistors but there are other possibilities. Kind of sounds like something may be grounded as you said the ammeter is showing a heavy discharge.

Here is a wiring diagram for a similar generator. There are likeley some differences but maybee it will be close enough to get you on the right track.

Maybee someone else will come along with the exact wiring diagram.

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Old 01-26-2011, 09:41:24 PM
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

Thanks for the thoughts and pointers. I'll go at it with the ohm meter and let you know.

Thanks,
Tom
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:26:53 PM
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

Well Kimbra it was early and I was sober. No your unit does not have the resistor in the back. Check the stop relay make sure it is working. Manual control bypasses the control system so you can rope start it. If you switch it to manual from electric start while cranking it will start. When I get back to my shop I will look up you'r print.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:06:31 AM
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

The Ohm meter on the resistors didn't reveal anything but I found this connection quite loose so it wouldn't pass a lot of power. Any ideas on tightening it up? I'm wondering if I can solder it in place as the screw is down flat.

(Billy J Shafer
No your unit does not have the resistor in the back. Check the stop relay make sure it is working.)

Thanks Billy. It's supposed to be 50 deg here tomorrow. I'll be back out there then.

-Tom

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Old 01-28-2011, 02:24:11 PM
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Talking Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

Tom, your looking at the WRONG set of resistors. The circled Resistor is NOT the one that is not working correctly. You need to follow the print, that is posted, and the wire that come up the left side from the Series Field to the Starter Solenoid, and then on to the Charging Resistor, (that lays flat in the upper lefthand corner of the top picture, and the vertical one in the upper lefthand corner) Follow these with a Voltmeter from point to point and find where the Series Field Voltage stops, and then repair that.
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:20:06 AM
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

OH,
Thanks - glad I posted the pics. Glad it's Saturday and I can play with this.
More later - Tom
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:00:07 PM
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

Just gotta say it. 74 down here today.
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:47:00 PM
George Clark George Clark is offline
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

need drawings and manual,send me an email with model and spec number and i will get them to you, georgenfw@hotmail.com
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:24:49 PM
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Default Re:Found bad resistors - Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

BTPost, Thanks for keeping on me with this. The stop relay is not recieving power. I jumped it out for trouble shooting. It does check with an ohm meter.

I found two resistors open. (See picture) Click image for larger version

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ID:	99100 (I believe they are the voltage dropping resistor and the fixed resistor) Is there a good place to order parts from? I could probably solder the variable one together and reset the variable resistor. Do you know what the voltage should be coming off it? I would expect something around 14.5 volts.

Also this flow chart of the electrical starting sequence was very helpful when i found it today. Click image for larger version

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Thanks again.

-Tom
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:27:46 PM
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Default Re: Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

Thanks for the offer George! I have the operators manual and the major service manual from Onan already. If you have other information I would be interested in that.
-Tom

5CCK-3R/1F
serial 300834699
120/240 PH1, PF1 60hz
Data 5cck3c1a
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Old 02-13-2011, 07:50:45 AM
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Default Onan 5 CCK runs in hand start but not elec start

Got it working again!
One of the projects today was replacing a couple of resistors in an old generator we use when the power is out. I mentioned about a month ago we woke up to the power out. After the generator was running for about an hour and 30 it quit and I had to run it in the hand start, not electric start mode. Seems the keep running circuit was open and it had quit charging the battery.
So.. After having fun with the wiring schematic and finding some parts on line, it's back operational. In the picture you can see one of the resistors is variable, took a bit to figure out how to get it set properly.

Thanks for the help and suggestions.

Now to convert it to propane.
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