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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine


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  #1  
Old 10-31-2017, 10:33:42 PM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Ok so I'm a newbie in hit and miss engines. For some reason, I made it deep into middle age without realizing I really needed one. I've tinkered on a few John Deere tractors including a 1952 A, and run a few Harleys including a 1976 Shovelhead, but it wasn't until the Steam and Gas Meet in Bridgewater this summer that I realized I needed something different. I'd taken a hand cranked corn sheller and enough earcorn to last the week, but the kids blew through that stack in one night so I had some time to look around, and that's when the bug bit. I started watching the ads and looked at several engines but most were mis-represented. I finally found a machine in my home town from a guy known for having good running equipment. The price was very fair and he took an interest in getting me off to a good start. So, I've hauled it home and now I have Wendel's Power In The Past 3 and I'm reading as many posts as I can. It's a 1930 Stover CT-3 closed crank hit and miss that was reportedly used to grind feed in a mill in Frederick, Maryland. It seems complete, and it ran well when I bought. I don't have the nerve yet to try starting it. I'm hoping you guys can help with some questions. I'll post pics shortly, I hope.

---------- Post added at 10:33:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24:45 PM ----------

I hope these come through. I forgot to mention the color, industrial green. Please tell me this isn't a factory color.



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  #2  
Old 11-01-2017, 07:01:12 AM
Heavy Metal Heavy Metal is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

Congratulations on your first engine. Contact Joe Maurer at toadhill@aeroinc.net with your engine's info. His club maintains the Stover company records and he can tell you the original shipping info for that engine. According to Wendal's Notebook, Stover CT engines were painted Dupont GS188 green. Most original painted CT's I've seen were a dark green. There are several good engine guys in your area and I'm sure they would be happy to help you if you need anything.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2017, 08:33:53 AM
Mikey NY Mikey NY is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

nice find, on a cart and even the tank in the base. Mine was pulled from a hedge row , seized up and completely rusted when I got it. If yours was running recently, be sure not to adjust anything or remove any parts. Make sure the timing lever on the mag linkage is in the up position. Close the choke, depress the intake valve with one finger and pull the flywheel over a few times until gas drips out of the mixer, then open the choke half way , stand behind or next to it and give a good pull on the flywheels. If it starts push the timing lever down and open the choke. Once it is running and you learn a little about it, you can tinker with the needle valve on the mixer and adjust the speed with the speed control knob near the governor. don't forget to oil some of the linkages and a drop or two on the valve stems and check the oil in the crank case. Have fun.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:19:55 AM
OrgWayne OrgWayne is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

I Have my Brothers 1936 ct-2/tb and it is painted a orange color , not red , sent to Jaeger Machine Co , so they where probably.
painted a lot of different colors , great find
Wayne
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:22:20 PM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

Thank you for the replies, this site make a project like this a whole lotta fun. I've got an email to Joe. I found a date of 11/29 cast into the base which supports that this is a 1930 machine. I started cleaning tonight and found red paint evidence. It's under the industrial green and its on the tank, crank cover, and flywheels. I can't find any Brewster green anywhere. I can't find decals either. Can anyone show me an original paint red CT-3? Maybe sold under another name? The red is hard to see but here are a few pictures.


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  #6  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:44:14 PM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

Tonight's update, the flywheel outer edges seem to have gray paint. I'm wondering how many times it was painted after leaving the factory.

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  #7  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:57:47 AM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

I received a response from Joe Maurer yesterday and it was an eye-opener. What I thought was a 1930 grinding machine was actually shipped to F E Myers in Ohio in January 1929. I'm now looking for pictures of a 3 HP stationary motor with a Myers pump, anybody got something? Did Myers paint the engines to match the pumps, and what would that color be?
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Old 11-18-2017, 12:15:24 AM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

I’m doing a lot of research and making a little progress. I’ve stripped the paint off the flywheel rims and that’s an improvement. For history, Joe Mauer confirms this engine was shipped to F. E. MYERS & BRO., the pump people, in January 1929. It apparently ended up in a feed mill in Frederick, Maryland as a stationary engine for grinding feed. It was rescued from scrapping by an employee and a cart was cobbled together to move it around. I’m not sure when it got its industrial green paint job and I’m looking forward to taking that off as soon as I can.

I'd like to determine what it looked like when it was built. I can't find any Brewster green on it any where. Most of the surface is rusty, even under the industrial paint. In a few places I'm finding bits of red paint that look original, or very old. Would Stover or Myers paint an engine red to maybe match a pump? I'd welcome a photograph of a Stover stationary engine sold with a Myers pump, or a 1929 vintage Myers stationary pump in color..

Pictures of original survivors seem to show a paper decal on the hopper. Available reproductions are orange with a blue circle and orange letters on what looks like a piece of foil. Is this consistent with a original? Does anyone have a good picture of an original 1929 decal for a CT-3?

I ordered a parts list and replacement ID tag from Hit and Miss today and then realized I need to get the tag engraved. Would a jeweler do this? What's a good source for a quality engraved data tag?

I've heard that spinning the flywheels with the plug wire unhooked can damage the magneto, and I see videos with magnetos covered with plastic while the engines are running in wet weather. Is there a list of don'ts when it comes to protecting a magneto?

Sorry for all the questions, this is my only engine and I want to do the best with it I can with it.
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2017, 10:39:33 AM
Lou Quirch Lou Quirch is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my first hit and miss engine

Congratulation on your new hobby,
The serial tags on my Stovers are stamped with dies. You can buy different size letter and number dies at Harbor Freight for very cheap and they are good enough quality for our use on brass tag.
Have fun,
Lou
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2017, 04:28:18 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Exclamation Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

A good paint shop should be able to fix you up with Brewster green paint. I know Muralo makes it. My local paint shop (Paintin Place, Denville NJ) will even put it in rattlecan dispensers for you! if you have a NAPA auto store, with auto paint, they too can make it up for you - either in the can or as a rattle can item.

Brewster Green is a muddy green color - similar to a dark military green. Most Stovers were factory BG,, but there were quite a few exceptions. I have seen a dark red (Rex cement mixer), Black, silver, and Orange, as supposed factory colors. If Joe can't give you the original color, perhaps another collector can let you know what it is. You could be seeing a red lead primer or true red paint. Look in cracks or hard to get to areas (seams or joints) for color. You might find original paint inside the crankcase cover or inside the block as well.

Your engine should have the WICO EK magneto. They are a robust unit. As with any mag, it should NOT be tripped without either a plug connected or the high tension lead grounded to the case. You do not want to trip it with an open high tension circuit. To do so risks the chance of damaging the high tension side of the coils. Rain should not hurt the EK. If you transport in the open, in bad weather, then I would wrap in a good plastic bag, to keep wind blown water out of it. remove the bag when you get to your destination. I would not run the engine with the mag covered, nor store it. Keeping it covered in plastic, long term, can trap moisture inside, which will degrade coils and make a mess of the points.

Care of the EK - When the mag trips, it should break both poles evenly. If one side breaks before the other, you will get poor spark, if any. With a popsicle stick under both poles, the points should JUST open. DO NOT over oil the mag! ONE DROP of 3-N-1 or a good grade electrical motor oil, once in a great while is more than enough. A common problem with EKs is people putting several drops of engine oil in the oil hole, every time they run the engine. This lead to oil fouling of the points, and allows dirt and grime to accumulate on the armature. If possible, make sure the engine stops with the mag armature closed. If the engine stops with the mag tripped open, the magnets will lose their magnetism over time.

Don't over oil!
Don't run covered!
Don't stop with the armature open. (tripped)
Don't trip with the outer cover off the magneto
Don't trip without the high tension grounded or without a spark plug grounded. NOTE maximum gap spark jump should be 1/4" or less, if you want to test the mag. A good condition EK CAN deliver up to a 1/2" spark, and it WILL hurt if you get bit!
Don't use modern auto spark plug wire! It has too much resistance, and can damage the secondary windings in the coils. Use a wire core wire like Packard 440. NO carbon core.
Don't use resister spark plugs

DO oil all moving parts
Do keep points clean
Do make sure armature is closed when the engine is stopped.
Do make sure all moving parts are clean and move easily
Do make sure spark plug gap is .025"
Do make sure springs are NOT painted, nor have pitting or surface rust

The WICO EK was an excellent mag, and gives many years of service with little attention. Ask all the questions you want - you cannot learn without asking! There is no such thing as a dumb question! For a newbie, it is the only way to learn how these interesting engines work! have fun with your new hobby!
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  #11  
Old 11-19-2017, 09:33:59 AM
Zira Zira is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Myers pumps were typically painted a shade of green roughly like what you have on your engine, so that MAY be the source of the green paint - either from Stover when ordered, Myers, or someone later repainting the pump rig. Or not.
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  #12  
Old 11-22-2017, 03:31:27 PM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Thanks guys for the responses. I'm using stripper to take that green paint off (it's really on there) and it looks like gray automotive primer underneath so I don't think Myers painted it that color. I'm impressed by people that refurbish these engines so quickly. It seems to take forever for me to get any progress made.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:40:24 PM
Mike McKnight Mike McKnight is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by highbeam View Post
Thanks guys for the responses. I'm using stripper to take that green paint off (it's really on there) and it looks like gray automotive primer underneath so I don't think Myers painted it that color. I'm impressed by people that refurbish these engines so quickly. It seems to take forever for me to get any progress made.
Don't ever feel bad about how long it takes you to finish a project, just enjoy the ride and if it ever turns into work step away, take a breather and come back when you're ready. It's all supposed to be FUN!

I've been working on my 1 HP Famous project since I got it in June https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169256
and it's JUST NOW finally getting to the point I'm ready to try to start it.

I've also got a 4 HP Famous engine project
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172365
and there's NO TELLING how long it's going to take to even track the parts down! And I'm looking forward to all of it!

I won't even get into the Case steam engine I've been piecing together for the last 10 yrs....

So hang in there, and enjoy this great hobby. As soon as you get done with this one, chances are you're just gonna start on another one!

Mike
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:16:23 PM
Dale Russell Dale Russell is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Mike, you are right. Some projects take longer than others. I was 30 to 35 yrs. getting my 8 Cycle dog bone Aermotor complete but it was worth it, to get it running the first time it ran.

Life got in the way, and other things. (A Grandson kept prodding me to get it running).
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:33:07 PM
Jeremy Hartle Jeremy Hartle is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Time dont mean much. Some you will blow through pretty quick. Some will take forever. I got a 7 hp Hercules ive been fooling with for 6-7 years now. Bought a Novo in May and had it running in June. Each one is different, depending on the condition of the engine. Luck helps too.
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:07:14 AM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

The lime green is coming off slowly. I was hoping to find some original paint, pinstripes, or stickers but looks like just rust. Stripper only seems to work on places that were primed. Scraping with a putty knife is working well on the flay areas. A wire brush in a drill is getting the rest.

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Old 12-03-2017, 07:32:59 PM
con-rad con-rad is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Stovers are great little engines, and they seem to always start well and hit hard. I have a CT-2 and a KA 2hp.

They are fairly easy and safe to start. Here is a video i made of my KA with some instructions of how to start it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0W...9VHMt&index=11

enjoy! just remember these engines reproduce quickly when left alone in the garage.

connor
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Old 12-14-2017, 09:48:54 PM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Thank you Con-Rad, I check out several of you videos. Lots of diverse and interesting machines!

I have this oil gauge on the back of the Stover. I'm not seeing others like it on the internet. Does it suggest what this engine was used for?

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Old 02-03-2018, 10:53:55 PM
highbeam highbeam is offline
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Default Re: Stover CT-3 is my First Hit and Miss Engine

Progress has been slow with the cold but I can share this. The Stover came with a cart that had what we think are railroad cart wheels. They're not original to this stationary engine but they're nice and I want to keep them. One issue is that the rubber is disintegrating on one of the wheels. I asked for ideas in another posting, and it was suggested to use fork-truck tires or grind off the remaining rubber and run bare rims. After some pondering, I decided to try this and see what happens. It was only the outside that was deteriorating so I trimmed off the lose rubber with a razor knife, leaving a hard rubber "mohawk" around the rim. Into this, I drove decking screws, taking care to stay below the level of the final tire. I got a can of Bondo long hair fiberglass at Autozone for twenty bucks and starting building up a tire. It seems to work great. Time will tell if it lasts but it buys some time while I see what happens to the other rims. Here's a pic with the tire on the axle while I worked it into shape.. The can is to find the high spots. I'll fill in a few blemishes with JB Weld and paint and scuff it to match the others.

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