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Radiator Question


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  #1  
Old 06-30-2019, 10:10:49 AM
Hubbie Hubbie is offline
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Default Radiator Question

I have the newer engine in my fire truck. I'm wanting to know if I can still use the original radiator which is a non pressure system with the newer engine that was a pressure system. Thanks mike
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Old 06-30-2019, 11:08:02 AM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is offline
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Default Re: Radiator question

You can but it might boil over unless the original system was way larger for the original engine that was in the truck. If you have more horse power in the new engine then you will have more waste heat to get rid of. Try it and see, you could add an auxiliary radiator somewhere else with an electric fan to keep the engine cool.
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Old 06-30-2019, 12:41:52 PM
Heins Heins is offline
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Default Re: Radiator question

All a pressurized system does is raise the boiling point of the water in the radiator. I would try your radiator, you will see if it keeps it cool enough.
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Old 06-30-2019, 02:55:41 PM
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Tom Marshall Jr. Tom Marshall Jr. is offline
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Default Re: Radiator Question

check the thermostat , 180 or less like 160 would get you lower from the boiling point. todays thermostats are 195 or more . to hot for a non pressure system .
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:08:57 PM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Photo Re: Radiator question

If it's anything like the radiator in my old 37 Ford Truck it's likely Way Bigger than it needs to be.

Used to always hear stories of Flathead Fords overheating all the time, but with mine being in a bigger truck with a Huge radiator it rarely ever got over 180 degrees even with the engine bored .125 oversized and running 4-grand at 60mph. Temp dropped to 160 on the highway with the added airflow.

Your Firetruck most likely has an even bigger radiator than my truck did.

Just make sure you use a good thermostat to regulate the coolant flow and the temp.



---------- Post added at 02:08:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02:16 PM ----------

Since you already swapped in a newer engine, why not take the radiator in to a shop and have then swap out the filler neck for one that will take a pressurized cap.

If the old radiator cap also doubles as a hood ornament you could have it capped off inside and add a second pressurized one under the hood or even T'd into the upper radiator hose.

https://www.fillernecksupply.com/in-...all%20products

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Old 06-30-2019, 03:21:28 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Radiator Question

+1 on a firetruck having a large radiator. Needs to be able to run under load, stationary, while running the pump. I am assuming you probably won't be doing a lot of that.

Keith
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:00:18 PM
Monsonmotors Monsonmotors is offline
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Default Re: Radiator Question

I do these kinds of conversions all the time. Since the original radiator is also more of a “body part” because it was designed to fit inside the radiator shell, it’s a no-brainer to use it.
I always have a radiator shop block the original dribble tube the old systems had and install a new neck and overflow tube.
You can only run maybe a 6psi cap, max.
Use the rad caps without the release levers and connect a hose to an overflow tank.
The last conversion I did the radiator alone held 3 gallons of coolant! Talk about your thermal inertia.
In my little 1/2 ton conversions with these monster original radiators I don’t usually run a fan. The modern stuff is converting so much more energy to motion rather than heat. Yes, if I got stuck in a major traffic jam I’d just turn the engine off.
On your project you’ll need a fan.
Having said all that modern aluminum and plastic radiators are crazy efficient. They sure don’t last as long as the old ones did, though. I’m currently running two or three rads from the 1930s.

---------- Post added at 01:00:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54:32 PM ----------

BTW, these later-motor conversions are called “abominations” here on Smokstak because you aren’t using the original style motor. I guess these folks didn’t live through enough hard times to realize you use what you can find to keep an old truck running. The truck sure doesn’t know any different along with 90% of the population.
Best of luck!
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:28:59 PM
Hubbie Hubbie is offline
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Default Re: Radiator Question

Yes the radiator is quite large. It will hold between 4 and 5 gallons. I did go down in engine size from 592 to 450 cubic inch, but up in horsepower. Also from a flat head to overhead valve. I'm in the process getting the brake and clutch figured out and then it will be time to plumb up the radiator.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:50:06 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Radiator Question

Your smaller, overhead valve engine may very well reject less heat, even if it is capable of developing more power. And certainly will reject less heat at the same power level.
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Old 07-01-2019, 11:59:06 AM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Radiator Question

Interesting question---systems were pressurized to raise running temps as hotter engines ran more efficiently...
typical 50-50 coolant mix boils at what-25o or so?-too lazy to look it up...
Question would be effects on engine running cooler than designed, hence less efficiently...not enough to tell ordinarily??...no worry on unit being used primarily for parades, displays??...
Something to consider if used for operating displays---hot summer fairground, static pump capacity display, engine under load on today's gasoline while unable to attain designed operating temp, possible incomplete combustion, etc???
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:13:11 PM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is online now
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Default Re: Radiator Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Marshall Jr. View Post
check the thermostat , 180 or less like 160 would get you lower from the boiling point. todays thermostats are 195 or more . to hot for a non pressure system .
This is incorrect. The thermostat only sets the MINIMUM temp the engine will run at.
With "permanent" (Glycol) anti freeze should never require any 'Stat less than 180. 192 will not be a problem in non-pressurized system 50/50 boils at 225 deg +/- a deg. So far above 192 that the 'stat will be fully open before boiling. Even if only running water (not recommended, but some firetrucks were set up so they could run pump water thru the engine to keep it cool while "working the fire") and if you wanted to keep that in place for historical reasons, you still would be fine with the higher temp 'stat.
What you use will likely be influenced by what you can find that fits.
A pressurized system not only helps with boiling temp but does increase the pump efficiency as the inlet will now have slightly positive pressure.
I don't see any problem running that RD in a non-pressurized system.

---------- Post added at 01:13:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:45:41 PM ----------

A hard running engine only need to loose 10-15 deg of temp between the top and bottom tank of the radiator to keep from over heating.
When trucks used "shutters" on the radiator, the shutter 'stat was set 10 deg over thermostat setting if the shutter control was in the top tank and the same as thermostat setting if the shutter control was in the bottom tank.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:57:31 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is online now
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Default Re: Radiator Question

Not quite your fire truck, but I modernized the engine in my 1950 IHC L-120. The original engine was a SD240, low compression (5:1 compression) and 85 HP tops. it was a low sped engine (about 3 grand tops) The replacement was a 1966 chevrolet 250. 10.5 1 compression, modified intake (rochester 2 bbl from a 1967 327), polished intake and a head from a 1968 that had larger valves, that was milled to raise the compression back up. The replacement engine regularly saw 6500 RPM and hit 7200 once for about 5 seconds. The original IHC radiater had absolutely no problem handling the extra heat made by the chevy engine, in fact, during the winter i had to block off about 1/2 the radiator in order to get heat in the truck! I used a 180 degree thermostat. Most fire trucks had what was called a 'winter front', that is a set of shutters that could be closed to help keep the engine temps warm. I did not use a closed system for cooling my truck, however I did use antifreeze in it.
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:45:00 PM
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OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
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Default Re: Radiator Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Tierney View Post
Interesting question---systems were pressurized to raise running temps as hotter engines ran more efficiently...
typical 50-50 coolant mix boils at what-25o or so?-too lazy to look it up...
Question would be effects on engine running cooler than designed, hence less efficiently...not enough to tell ordinarily??...no worry on unit being used primarily for parades, displays??...
Something to consider if used for operating displays---hot summer fairground, static pump capacity display, engine under load on today's gasoline while unable to attain designed operating temp, possible incomplete combustion, etc???
That ^ Right There is why I recommended running a Good Thermostat to regulate the coolant flow.
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Old 07-01-2019, 06:42:42 PM
Tracy T Tracy T is online now
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Default Re: Radiator Question

any of you all seen the inside of a engine that was ran too cool? I have and it aint pretty! the ones i have been into look like everything is caked in black wax! one was in a ford f150, the guy bought the truck brand new and brought it to us for scheduled services and was religious about it. It blew up @ around 50k miles! short drive to work, engine never reached operation tempature. the other was in a chevy van, thermostat stuck open for years and another vehicle that was bought new. it was my grandfathers and i still have it and its not blown up "yet" engine needs to come out and visit the hot tank.
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