Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"


this thread has 410 replies and has been viewed 21078 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #381  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:58:59 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,141
Thanks: 389
Thanked 1,327 Times in 550 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Bevel gear for governor was used through the GE motor. LE motor used spiral like a U or later G.. GE motor often called open flywheel. Both were 403 same as most 21-32/FT except for earliest ones. The early ones were 340 same as the GTC in 40's. GE motors were babbit whereas LE had precision.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Molinegb For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #382  
Old 09-07-2019, 11:07:26 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default Propping up my addiction to 21-32‘s and small TC’s in general.

Thanks GB! Needed that bit of gold!
And shows. Went to the Dalton, MN show Friday with my buddies May-ur Keith and Steve! (Lake Region Pioneer Thresherman’s show https://threshers.org/ and had a wonderful time! It’s only 1 to 1-1/2 hours away and Steve drove. Great! I have not been there since there was only a couple hundred feet of track in place for the little French locomotive (an oddball here in the upper Midwest) to run on. 30-35 years.
For quite a while, there’s been a LARGE circle of track on a beautiful grounds of grass and young trees. Neat depot and free train rides.
(Stay with me here) Kind of like when someone filled up Swed’s building at Rollag FULL of 7-10 foot young trees, wired up ALL around the fences. Someone had keys. Not me but I may have helped. I thought it looked really nice! The green against the iron in that U shaped walkway... Elaine was NOT pleased the next morning. It was a good idea at the time.
Dalton is absolutely gorgeous, like Swed’s building was that night.
Eh hem. We toured the show-grounds and all the buildings. New sidewalks all around main street and improvements are still happening. Bowled over by the red Parkdale Elevator. Soon ready to go! People on both sides of the fence are quite friendly and had a good visit with my 6th grade music teacher and director of our local Men’s Chorus. He’s caretaker of his family’s house there. Maybe my voice can do the 4th? verse of Jester Hairston's "Amen" yet.
Good show!
Out in tractor-land, one Twin City was over in the IH area. Hehehe. They’re separated/segregated there. Us Twin City folk, whilst my foot touches valve springs from two different Twin City tractors, we do our own thing and sing our own song... Yeah, whatever Duane. Perhaps the owner put it next to his nice M, huh?
The one and only Silver King was wearing a parade tag “OT xx” Other Tractor 16 or some-such. ie. JD 15, IH 22, MH 19 and MM 23.
A big four cylinder (gasser) Russel lives there! We think that tractor’s uber cool. It is!
A big Aultman-Taylor simply said “No.” to his care taker. Not interested in parading that day.
The two small Twin City’s there were 21-32‘s! 151265 (1929) and 155107 (1935).
I do not believe any of the three 17-30B? Minneapolis tractors had run in awhile...Sweet cross-motors.

21-32‘s. Let’s see! Here’s 151265 (#962 tractor yet his engine is only number #522 101007 block series FE1F). A very quick look on the tube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5R0yYP83K8
"Slab sided" flat side oil filter base already. Early heads with 4 post water outlet manifold so it has the bigger 2-1/8 valves. FE224 cylinders from 10-43 so a 403.
Next up is 155107 but never smart enough to take more pics. Dang it, never occurred to me to see block series on the '35. Durn it. Should've inspected TC's first thing I did there.

6356. Hot-Spot equipped. He’s been worked on a bunch in the last 10. Wonder what his story is?
7602. IH mag.
9626. NO foot pedal here. Hmmm? Wait a sec D, he’s older than parts #1217 here.
7440. Fuel tanks with band.
5348. The gap betwixt the tanks.
2205. 2's shaft has that extra keyway and this one they left the turning marks.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_134756356.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	185.4 KB
ID:	343458   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_134747602.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	188.5 KB
ID:	343459   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_135709626.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	237.1 KB
ID:	343460   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_135627440.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	139.4 KB
ID:	343461   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_135635348.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	130.6 KB
ID:	343462   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_134912205.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	134.0 KB
ID:	343463  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #383  
Old 09-07-2019, 11:17:13 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default Last bit on 151265

4908. IF this'll post. Engine 522, number 101007-100485(start)=522. Zoom in.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_135404908.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	191.7 KB
ID:	343466  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #384  
Old 09-08-2019, 02:27:09 AM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default 21-32 TC 155107, the few pics I took.

Grrr. Darned computers/sites. Hit the right unknown button and all is lost. Dang it.
Anew: The boilermen at Dalton, once explained where we were from, were very gracious to us and let us in.
Neat operation and Leffel boiler/s. They have two Leffel’s! Oh wait so do we but the mini is not fired. Cannot recall their small Leffel boiler and what it does. Brain-dead and my friend’s would agree. Not a comparison but we were blessed with a BIG Leffel Boiler in Albany and it is very free steaming. One fellow treated us very nicely, showed us around their yet further back room and talked to us like friends. Great guy. He’ll be in Albany next weekend. I hope I see him there. He is very welcome. Inside.
The Highway Patrolman boiler operator was very quiet until Keith messed with him and then still quiet’ish...... Such a wonderful experience at Dalton. Good guys, good fun!
Didn’t make it to the Atwater, MN show today, Too much (needed) time in Albany. An hour turned into 5. OK.
There’s always tomorrow, even if I have to use an umbrella! It’s raining here.
Messed up enough in the head to wish both of these TC’s were mine.
7826. This ‘35 FT-A has the numbered lower rad tank. Perhaps a dead horse beating subject. I do not know.
Could be an up grade/down grade situation with rad’s on this tractor. You tell me?
I’ll play it this way: A 21-32 rating on a tractor that has exceeded these marks hard already.
Stuck tighter than...
Yes, an AT-4 LP, do not remember his designations, and a UB LP in the background. A fellow asked us if we know who had the AT-4. He liked it and wanted it. Minneapolis-Moline’s running on LP are a true joy. Spent good time on an LP powered U. We didn’t know spit. Fun stuff! In demand. Still. His xxxsomeonexxx had a Diesel and ... EDIT: That ain't no UB in the background. That's a U.
6106. This guy’s tag. I shouldn’t lip off about lower rad tanks perhaps.
7541. A replaced/down clutch handle with no foot pedal on a ‘35 FT-A?
7333. His GE engine number. Zoom in. Remember, GB says the GE block is still a Babbitt engine and the precision bearings were yet to come in the LE engines with the spiral gov/oil gears. K?
7767. This ‘35‘s fuel tank/s. No gaps, straps or extras.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_140057826.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	253.2 KB
ID:	343467   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_135816106.jpg
Views:	35
Size:	139.0 KB
ID:	343468   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_135857541.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	146.8 KB
ID:	343469   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_135927333.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	274.7 KB
ID:	343470   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20190906_140037767.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	91.6 KB
ID:	343471  

Last edited by Duey C; 09-09-2019 at 07:19:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #385  
Old 09-09-2019, 11:53:27 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default 21-32 FE1H block engine bits.

Replies: We surpassed the original cubic inches of this 21-32 tractor engine which is 381 or 2, I think. I helped too.
My brain says 383, prob'ly Mopar induced. Not that I'm looking for 403... Get it Huh? Yeah, ya get it. I'm afraid there's more to come.
Stumps me how that many looks INTO this thread have happened. Thank you all for looking into this madman's long time dream.
It is appreciated yet not required, done on OUR own volition. There is perhaps more interest in Twin City small tractors than I realize. .
The Ford model T world and this antique tractor world are a lot alike.
Operating on trust sometimes. That's a neat thing.
A "little birdy" actually stopped in and dropped off a cam for me. Thank you sir.
The wicked witch of the west said it best. I'll get you my XXXXXX. Remember? 1939 I think.
No meat nor potatoes in this post. Or is there?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #386  
Old 09-10-2019, 09:21:49 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,141
Thanks: 389
Thanked 1,327 Times in 550 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

21-32 first models. 4 1/2 x 6 = 381
21-32/Ft/FTA/GT/GTA/GTB/GB 4 5/8 x 6 = 403
GTC LP 4 1/4 x 6 = 341
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Molinegb For This Post:
  #387  
Old 09-11-2019, 12:39:47 AM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Gold per usual GB! Didn't know about the GTC LP. When? Too darned lazy to search right now.
An LP powered M/Moline GTC 341 will produce as much horses as a bigger bore 403 gasser eh. Prob'ly. 100 Octane LP.
BIL's dad (Groops) kept a little gas powered pump (with a nice tin cover) under a 500 gallon tank in the backyard to feed their '52 U to refill his round tank.
See Tony's Unusual devices... thread too. His latest finds are Gold to me too. Suits the KT here perhaps.
Reply With Quote
  #388  
Old 10-02-2019, 11:14:55 AM
Jim Anderson's Avatar
Jim Anderson Jim Anderson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 298
Thanks: 7,096
Thanked 1,257 Times in 200 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Has anyone seen a 21-32 tractor with the small TC on the radiator? The pair of consecutive serial numbered ones that I have are that way. They are both from 1934. The following year 1935 the TC was replaced with an MM. All the other ones I have seen have the large TC. Here are a couple of pictures to show the difference.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20191001_221849.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	43.0 KB
ID:	345528   Click image for larger version

Name:	20191001_221745.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	84.0 KB
ID:	345529  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Jim Anderson For This Post:
  #389  
Old 10-03-2019, 08:14:59 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default Small TC logo on the rad tank. ^

VERY interesting post Jim!
Jim, are yours late 34 or something? The crews practicing with simply changing that logo and making ready for the 1935‘s and FT-A’s?
Or a board member seeing the tractors and asks at an MM meeting: Why are we STILL calling these Twin City tractors? It been almost 5 years!
They know who we are! Well Sam, people KNOW the Twin City brand. Hmmmm, how about just the logo in the center right now?
You know we're working on the Visionline tractors, then we can change it over?

I wish even more interested people would see your post. Do yours have the lower tank numbers? Wait, those aren't your Industrial's are they?
That photo of your Blue Streak tractor is really neat! Those lock springs all lined up like that had me seeing triple for a moment!

EDIT: ! As it should be! Jim's response on top! 11:55 PM, 10-3-19 by Duane!
154218 is on a k-bid auction up in Vergas, MN right now and has the large TC on the tank and the 21-32 on the lower.
A 1934 as far as my pilfered records show. 154130-154275 in 1934.
154218 seems around mid serial...
https://bid.aumannauctions.com/m/lot...%2F%3Fpage%3D2 EDIT 10-08-19 by Duane: After 10-15-19 these pics may not be available on their site when the sale is done. Contact me if you wish for more pics of this particular 154218 tractor. I'm going to save them in a minute or so for my own perusing. EDIT DONE. :-)
A lot of John Deere’s and parts, some Allis-Chalmers (15-25‘s & 20-35‘s) and parts, a Rock Island and much more! 1200 "lots". Keith Kicker estate.
No affiliation yet I'd love to have that tractor just for the differences between 2 and itself. Honey, can I have another 21-32?
Hey Keith, can I borrow a 1000 bucks for a just few months? Oh jeez, those rants at the start above even look like her saying "Duane, Duane...you said you only needed a "set" of YOUR tractors. Are you trying to break us? You don't have any more in your fun money, with this engine paid for you have nothing left. Do any of them run yet?"
"No Maw, big Rumely's would break us and I'm not interested."

154218 goes by the name Eileen like 2 does right yet. Zoom in.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	11360126_0.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	150.1 KB
ID:	345642  

Last edited by Duey C; 10-08-2019 at 04:58:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #390  
Old 10-04-2019, 01:44:31 AM
Jim Anderson's Avatar
Jim Anderson Jim Anderson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 298
Thanks: 7,096
Thanked 1,257 Times in 200 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Yup the small TCs are on the two 1934 industrials. The bottom radiator tanks both have the 21-32 casting on them. There was no production in 1933 and production in 1934 was 145 agriculture and 25 industrials for a total of 170 tractors. Maybe the small TCs were just an industrial thing? Maybe some were on agriculture tractors? Here's the serial numbers of the ones with the small TCs.
Click image for larger version

Name:	20181115_092838.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	116.1 KB
ID:	345678 Click image for larger version

Name:	20181115_092919.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	180.7 KB
ID:	345679
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jim Anderson For This Post:
  #391  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:49:01 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default Road trip to Delavan!

Mayor Keith agreed to go with yesterday as Maw is too busy at her Homecare/Hospice work. Keith drove down. I drove back.
Keith had to go as he was playing Mayor later.
We had a good time. This year has been a bear cat in some ways, down for a month healing a "dumb" nerve in an arm. Pulled 2's input shaft with a "dumb" wrist and hand.
Fell off my truck cab 5 weeks ago (yeah, I know but when the boys are up there and...).
The Albany Show gods showed me what happens when I'm not there for the show... If I had fallen there, it would've just been off my chair... Could've been WAY worse.
The things I can come up with to stop work on everything. Sheesh.
Oop! I could haul Jim out here as he'd put the transmission cover back on the KT. Buttoning that huge project up for winter.
Better every day!

5806: 5:50am depart, breakfast in Hector, drop the last rad side frame at Jason's to weld, Keith liked both shops, let maps on phone instead of a real map guide us further. FAIL. THRU New Ulm. Did get to see Jeff Lund's shop at a turn so a plus. Arrived Delavan. Received good info about starting a Cory engine, paid the bill, headed back north using the phone as MY guide, had a nice ride home for a 3:15pm arrival. That old Chevy sure likes to run. He was a freeway runner in his past life near the birthplace of these tractors. I warm him before running off as he knocks a bit cold.
9813: Bruce (friend/co worker/we've been thru 5-S and narcissistic company president that had us fired hell-now heaven) stopped over for a couple beers and helped with extra eyes. ONCE the engine was chained up the right way and ready. He was good eyes for me so I didn't have to shut the old loader down and crawl out under the arms with every move. Don't like that even tho both boom safety's still work good.
Hey! Should I paint the engine City of Montreal/Twin City Grey or get some "new cast iron" paint? If grey, I don't think I can get Northwest Airlines (really close) gray like I did on 26038 Grey 17-28 30 years ago. I'd like your opinion as it's out of place now anyway and the engine looks really clean/new in the spots not wrapped up. Hate to unwrap it but have to.
5309: Safe inside the dry LITTLE Cozy Shop.
8312: I have a 413.73. Son had a couple Mopar 413's come thru here when he was growing up. They sure don't look like this.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20191009_162255806_HDR.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	129.6 KB
ID:	346223   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20191009_174149813_HDR.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	149.5 KB
ID:	346224   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20191009_183115309.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	132.6 KB
ID:	346225   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20191009_185828312.jpg
Views:	40
Size:	32.9 KB
ID:	346226  
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #392  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:36:46 AM
Russ Hamm's Avatar
Russ Hamm Russ Hamm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canton, Kansas, USA
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 1,295
Thanked 3,025 Times in 985 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Due, talk about ills this year, I have had the gout in my right knee and then my left foot on and off for two months now. Found out my doses should have been doubled some time ago.
Must be you have a 2002 ish Chevy knocking when cold? The one with the Teflon piston skirts? We had one that would knock even when it was warm, GM said not to worry about it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Russ Hamm For This Post:
  #393  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:17:15 PM
Camerons's Avatar
Camerons Camerons is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southeast, South Dakota, USA
Posts: 244
Thanks: 456
Thanked 1,005 Times in 148 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

That must have been the twin city block I saw last weekend when I dropped my Hart Parr block and piston's at Todd's shop.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Camerons For This Post:
  #394  
Old 10-11-2019, 07:31:39 PM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default 21-32 engine

Remember, this a replacement H block I'm working with and not original. Works for me.
I hated to bother that very busy man but I did call Mr Cory before closing time for 40 or 50 seconds.
“Is there a coating on that engine or is it bare cast iron? It looks so pretty.” Yes, a light coat of primer to keep it from rusting for awhile.
Cool! It looks just great! Too bad I wasn’t smart enough to ask what it is...
Heck, I’m opening it up tonight.

Russ, it’s an ‘05! Well that explains it. Gosh, I thought I did it. At 165,000 miles, it should knock a little but I did heat it the night I snuck it home after buying the loan out for my daughter, in the dark, no insurance, don’t know about tabs anymore and found out Daughter had not refilled the anti-freeze...about 4 miles.
Gout? Ouch! Did they call you ol’ limp along? Oww. A neighbor had that.
Camerons, it sure was! Hahaha, no fair, you got to see it bare before me... So happy to have bitten that bullet! The traveling is a killer for me tho. And some little birdie’s will do it on a whim and go right to work after the trip! Oh wait, I’m contradicting myself...
Heads will need to wait a bit. Perhaps buy the valve blanks, save and get the springs, repeat for guides and repeat until the end of the year.

My first fearful looks under the shrink wrap. Knucklehead, open it up.
WTH Jim, is that a NOS cam gear? Good grief it’s gorgeous!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	100_0503.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	133.0 KB
ID:	346325   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_0504.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	105.0 KB
ID:	346326   Click image for larger version

Name:	100_0505.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	76.2 KB
ID:	346327  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #395  
Old 10-12-2019, 12:08:58 AM
Jim Anderson's Avatar
Jim Anderson Jim Anderson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 298
Thanks: 7,096
Thanked 1,257 Times in 200 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Looking good Duey! Mr. Cory sure does some nice work!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jim Anderson For This Post:
  #396  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:05:40 AM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default The real work just started.

Bear with me if you wish, too much typed. Or is it? Many things to noodle...
It's awe inspiring Jim! Mr Cory does beautiful work!
I'm just dumb founded, there's a new Twin City engine here albeit 90 years old. Scenes that haven't been seen since then except by some.
One thing I needed to show was the cylinder gaskets. This head set came from the NAPA store. Fel Pro HS 7550 B-3 Minneapolis Moline it says on the slim box ID sticker/decal. 30 bucks cheaper on amazon but I buy local when I can. I thought I had posted pics of the gasket box but I don't recall. Too many things on my mind to look I guess...
The cylinder "base" gaskets will stick out a half inch or so. That's normal for a 21-32. I asked Mr Cory not to cut them off as I wanted to show this. Someone knows which later engines these fit like a glove on.

We talked about gear mesh for the straight cut bevel gear on the cam and adjusting it also. I understood what he was saying and it needs to be addressed but there's more in this mix too.
IF I can articulate it: The cam has an FE 238 bronze/brass thrust washer right behind the gear and that will play a roll in the cam's gear placement fore and aft. Bloody complicated.
The governor assembly has an FE 30A "gasket" to handle gear mesh with the cam. Look at this when assembling as I will.
The oil pump has a bevel gear too (duh) and the gear simply rests on top of the pump drive shaft. The pump however came with four FE 305 paper shims installed between the block and the pump. This engine had none. Watch that gear clearance too.
Stay with me here: Simple bevel gears when not (too dang close) cogging/binding against each other make a beautiful rrrrrr sound. A model T rear axle gear set, I set really close, .007 or .008 thou clearance sounds so nice to me when I'm driving. No binding just rrrrR on the throttle and Rrrrr when decelerating. These gears should "sing" just a little if we listen.
I need to find or make another FE 238 thrust washer for camshaft as mine is split.
Didn't see that until Mr Cory cleaned it all up and sent it back in the spare parts box.
Madman done. More to come.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20191011_200205519.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	67.6 KB
ID:	346343  
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #397  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:39:53 AM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

21-32 oil pump drive shaft/detective work.

Shall we simply let ourselves fall into the Twin City engine Rabbit Hole? Come on along dear friends... he says... Oh oh.
La la la, I was putting the new gear on the old drive shaft... The keys didn’t look right and shouldn’t. They’re shearing off! Oh the old oil pump drive gear came off the shaft nice.
0 original keys: Might explain the collapsed/destroyed FE 215 oil pump strainer?
2‘s oil screen: The vacuum of a pump (OOP! The absence of atmospheric pressure! No such thing as vacuum in some circles. Oy vay... By the way, I need to use the absence of atmospheric pressure machine [the doggone vacuum cleaner] to clean up the entry rug in the house to my liking... That rug is apparently mine and it’s been a long time since last yet I keep trying to wreck myself.) can possibly destroy an oil pump strainer? Probably. No external signs of crush damage to the strainer yet it’s wrecked eh?
1 pump gear keys: Used keys on the gear box. Woodruff keys are still numbered the same after all this time! Book calls for (2) #5 Woodruff keys and Hillman still uses the numbers along with the dims. More china pieces.
New key mostly in the gear. Snug! With #5 keys in pocket, to the press, tomorrow at work.
They’re not any taller, but they’re wider so it’s snug. MUCH to watch for coming up for me.
2 drive gear: Note the pump drive shaft sticking up thru the drive gear. Bet it didn’t look like that from the factory.
3 pump drive shaft: The drive shaft splines are only worn 1/4 to 3/8 of the way thru after how many million turns around so the shaft and bevel gear go back in to do their duty some more.
The pump drive shaft had been pushed UP, down at oil pump gear level (TW 249A drive gear) to help raise the the bevel gear in a higher position to mesh better with the cam gear as the pump shaft and bevel gear wore into each other and the bevel gear wore DOWN on the drive shaft.
Remember the (4) FE305 shims between the block and the oil pump body are long gone? Remove them to help raise the bevel drive gear as things wear out. When it gets THIS far, the mechanic (thinking soundly in my book) pushed the pump shaft UP to help compensate as he knew the bevels should run closely yet not cogging.
At this point, I can only temp the oil pump back together and simply check gear clearances down in the pump body itself as I yet need to know the height of the oil pump drive shaft up at bevel gear drive level and more tweaking/pressing may be in the (2 key) TW249A oil pump drive gear and drive shaft’s future to secure half-correct gear mesh up at the cam. Man oh man, these little details are complicated. Perfect! Makes us better for it!
No wonder I left the pump on the floor in front of the fridge, half wrapped in paper towels... There was way more to it.
More to come. Too much to share. There’s two more posts right here in the back of my head, mostly with photos. These darned things are complicated!
Bwahahaha!
“And yet I find, and yet I find repeating my head”, any regular schmuck just like me with too little space, no big shop, no great facilities, presses and engine stands to handle these brutes CAN do this. Some crap pics.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	0 original keys.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	70.5 KB
ID:	346669   Click image for larger version

Name:	2's oil screen.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	66.2 KB
ID:	346670   Click image for larger version

Name:	1 pump gear keys.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	63.7 KB
ID:	346671   Click image for larger version

Name:	2 drive gear.jpg
Views:	25
Size:	67.7 KB
ID:	346672   Click image for larger version

Name:	3 pump drive shaft.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	64.5 KB
ID:	346677  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
  #398  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:12:05 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,141
Thanks: 389
Thanked 1,327 Times in 550 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

Collapsed sump screen caused by ice in bottom of pan. MM used same gears,woodruff keys all through R/Z series/ Jetstar. Similar pump used all 4 and 6 cylinder gas/diesels. I never have seen any shims. Block gaskets all same on 403 336,504 etc and they don't hang over edge.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Molinegb For This Post:
  #399  
Old 10-16-2019, 09:24:58 AM
Russ Hamm's Avatar
Russ Hamm Russ Hamm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canton, Kansas, USA
Posts: 1,768
Thanks: 1,295
Thanked 3,025 Times in 985 Posts
Default Re: Twin City Small Tractors. "On a WHIM"

I cant remember now which one, the TC or the Case, but I had a heck of a time finding woodruff keys of the right size for one of them. I think it was the Case, the only real key problem I had on the TC was the oil pump gears and that was on the front mounted pump on the 17-28. Those gears must work pretty hard over the years.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Russ Hamm For This Post:
  #400  
Old 10-17-2019, 01:10:22 AM
Duey C Duey C is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Central, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 565
Thanks: 1,113
Thanked 755 Times in 374 Posts
Default On The Turning Away. The 21-32 engine.

Thanks GB! You know I value your input because you've seen. Even when I’m a bit off the deep end to get me back on track. Gaskets might be a Fel-Pro thing? Ice! Duh. I feel silly again. That’s OK.
Jim, I’m not sure who’s cam gear was the worst but the FE 14 D series cam gear is ROUGH. It had a wrecked mag/water pump gear running on it for awhile. The C gear on the engine looks so nice as it’s been media blasted. I need to look for the differences betwixt C and D series gears as they are both in my grasp!
Russ, that sure is an understatement about any oil pump in our old engines. Tireless work they do, sometimes for naught in the end. Yet, for lots of us, with a little love, will keep the oils movin’ to live and work again! I need to check in on your Case...
Would one of you fellows do the 400th post for me? I still cannot comprehend that this mess has gotten this far out of control.
Like I tell my guy at work: "I feex" or "I trry". Use a hard Italian-type accent.

1. I called on my buddy Jim T for some fellowship and to lift the transmission cover back on the KT if it wasn’t snowing too bad last weekend. He handled that and we covered the KT back up.
My 30 year old 17-28 stands. One isn’t quite right as the footprint of the engines differ on the rear. 17-28 is wider. Mr Cory helped with that too.
2. Sat down in the cozy little shop to BS and we talked about 2‘s fresh engine. JT devised a plan!
On a Sunday!, he went up to his work and made the gray, scrap iron engine up-side down block stand!
3. No pics of The Turning of the engine out in the yard with the skid loader but it went flawlessly. A stubborn old Bohemian and my stubborn Irish brain worked it all out, 2 chains, no mistakes and VERY little mess.
We were both right on our points.
4. Should’ve reset the bolts while JT was here and asked him to lift the old upright block stands off and out.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	90.5 KB
ID:	346745   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	89.9 KB
ID:	346746   Click image for larger version

Name:	3.jpg
Views:	23
Size:	82.1 KB
ID:	346747   Click image for larger version

Name:	4.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	90.3 KB
ID:	346748  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Duey C For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Couple 20-35 Twin City Tractors Rescued mmtractor1950 Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 16 07-02-2017 12:22:20 AM
100+ Antique Tractors and Stationary Engines John Deere, Empire, Twin City, Wallis + SteveBranch Live Auctions of Engines, Tractors and Old Iron 0 09-11-2015 05:26:43 PM
Twin City tractors followed me home Ben Zimmerer Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 7 11-06-2014 09:21:21 PM
Bought a pair of Twin City tractors Nebraska Kirk Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 15 07-14-2014 04:50:10 PM
Flat belts for Twin City Tractors patchen1 Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 9 08-21-2011 02:23:16 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:53:39 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277