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Rumely X Carb Problem


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  #1  
Old 05-12-2012, 02:57:23 PM
Harold Kuret Harold Kuret is offline
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Default Rumely X Carb Problem

Working on a Rumely X. When running we can adjust the governor to get the engine running nice and slow. After 20 minutes or so of running and driving around the engine wants to speed up and will not return to running slow. We have had the governor apart twice now and everything seems fine with the governor. There is no binding on the linkage to the carb. With the engine running we removed the linkage at the carb, we could not manually move the linkage to slow the engine down, We could get it to speed up but not return to the slow idle when we first started it up.

When the engine is stopped, there is some play on the shaft with the butterfly on it. It seems to move 1/16" in all directions and 1/8" in and out.

Is this play normal?

When the engine is running you can not feel the play or move the shaft in and out.

I suspect the butterfly is somehow getting stuck so that it can not shut down all the way. We have not confirmed that this happens only after the engine is warm.

Could an air leak cause this such as from a warped carb or something?

Is there a procedure for busing or repairing the shaft the butterfly is on.

Thanks,

Harold
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  #2  
Old 05-12-2012, 05:35:01 PM
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Craig A Craig A is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

When the butterfly is open there can be some end play.
When closed there can't be any end play as the entire perimeter of the oblong butterfly SHOULD be "tight" all around.
Even the smallest opening will allow a draft and, therefore, gas to the engine.
Look into the inlet and see that the butterfly is not loose on the shaft and while you're that far check for ANY binding as well.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:14:15 PM
Oilpulled Oilpulled is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Make sure it's not getting cooling oil into the combustion chamber through a leaking head gasket or a crack.
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Old 05-14-2012, 06:52:00 PM
Harold Kuret Harold Kuret is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

We took the shaft out of the carb and everything looks okay, we re-installed the shaft and lined up the butterfly and made a new pin on the shaft where the linkage goes.

We ran emery cloth between the butterfly and the walls of the carb to ensure the butterfly seats well. Made a new gasket for betwen the carb and the engine.

The engine still acts the same. Again I took the governor linkage off and tried to slow the engine down by manually turning the shaft and it will not slow right down.

I do not have a starting tank and have the 2 tapped holes to the back of the carb plugged.

Any suggestions

Harold
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:06:12 PM
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Is it possible for you to aim a camera into the throat and get a photo of the butterfly in the closed position?
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Old 05-14-2012, 07:56:01 PM
taylorjisa taylorjisa is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Check carb gasket for a gasket leek or any vacuum leek. you are sucking air from some were after it warms up. Head gasket
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:28:24 PM
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Jon Nessel Jon Nessel is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

How much RPM difference are you experiencing when it warms up? Is the choke on, off, partially on? Might not help us, but could you shoot a video of it doing this?
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Old 05-14-2012, 09:28:52 PM
Harold Kuret Harold Kuret is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

I will try and get some pics tomorrow. We changed the rings and put oil control rings in as well as a new head gasket, exhaust gaskets and carb gasket. The engine has tons of compression and it is all you can do to get it over on compression.
I do not beleive the change in RPM has anything to do with warming up.
When you first start it it runs slow, If you change the ratchet position on the governor to speed the engine up it will not return to slow running, it is somewhere between say threshing speed and idle. If at this point you take the governor linkage off at the carb end you can not physically close the butterfly any more than when the linkage was on.

If you stop the engine and then re-start it, it runs slow until you speed it up again. I'll try and get a tach on it tomorrow as well.

When you look down the throat of the carb from the top, it looks as if someone has put a ring of solder or braze well above where the butterfly operates.

Is this normal?

Thanks,

Harold
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:17:16 AM
Darryl Darryl is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

might be rust partical or something drifting around in one of the carb jet passages and leaning it off now and then,take out needle[s] and blow them out.
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:20:20 AM
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

NOTHING there is normal.......
Is the butterfly is getting stuck?
I can't imagine how the butterfly could go from loose to stuck so bad once it's running that you can't manually close it with the link removed.......
As for any solder.......it definitely does not belong.
As long as you're fiddling with the governor, and whatnot, I'd set up the max speed the same as the M.......635 rpm's. The extra "rated speed" of the X is useless for any belt work. The belt feet per minute is just nuts.......
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:31:30 AM
RobW RobW is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

This is a long shot but is there any possibility that the hole for the butterfly shaft is worn egg shaped and the shaft is also out of round and with engine vacuum pulling it it is binding but turns free when the engine is stopped?
I know it sounds a bit hair brained but it was a thought.
Bear in mind that I have no knowledge about Rumleys.
Bob
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:40:17 AM
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

If in fact the Butterfly is sealing well Worn intake valve guides can also contribute to too much air and the engine overspeeding.

I'm thinking the butterfly isn't sealing as well as you think it is. If it's borderline it won't slow down as suction will increase with RPM. Even the air going around a worn shaft can make a difference.

These things roll so easy that it don't take much of a leak to make things overspeed.
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Old 05-15-2012, 01:21:17 PM
James L James L is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

I agree with Ken. You would be extreamly supprised at what you may think is not a bad leak, may in fact be the cause. As far as the "soldier". What you may be seeing is the Venturi for the water nozzel, this is cast into the carb. I have seen the brass all beat up in some of those carbs. Also check to see that the slot in the fuel nozzel.
make sure it is horizontal to the throat of the carb. some of these have als been messed with over the years. If it origoinal it is farily hard to get this wrong as long as you pay attention as it is reassembled. if its verticle the fuel does not atomize very well. not that an oilpull really atomizes fuel well anyway, but it does make a differance.

Do you have any smoke in your exhaust??
Is your lubricator running too fast?

You can take an oil can with gas in it and dribble it around all places where there could be a leak, you should then be able to see (rich smoke) and or hear (speeding up) a difference in the idle.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:00:24 PM
Harold Kuret Harold Kuret is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

We had another go at the old girl today, we took the carb off and checked the mating surfaces between the head and the carb. all is okay.

We did some more of the emery routine between the butterfly and the body of the carb, all seems fine.

We had the shaft out where the butterfly attaches earlier and the bushings that the shaft rides on and the shaft all appear to be in good shape.

re-assembled everything and go her running again with the same results. By starving the engine for fuel i can get it down to 350 RPM. when you racthet the governor up it does not react very well. If you get the engine running smooth by opening the needle up to the point where the governor becomes reactive, the slowest it will run is 400 RPM

The needle for the carb has the slots horizontal.

Thanks, Harold
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:26:08 PM
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Does the butterfly STILL get stuck?.......
Did you remove the nozzle?
At this point the only thing I can think of is gas is leaking either past the needle or the nozzle.
It is a 1/8" pipe thread where the nozzle screws into the body and it's possible fuel is leaking there?.......

After looking at the photos again it seems there is clearance where I have highlighted the butterfly.
The butterfly MUST fit tight, but not bind, all around or it will do exactly what it's doing.

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Old 05-16-2012, 08:44:08 AM
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Harold the solder you see in the carb well my 20-30 carb has it too,I see a few people are telling you to check the carb and plate as i said.I have a fixture here to make another one it belongs to the Bubbles,we machined up the throat of the carb so it was true and made a new plate and shaft and replaced the bushings,needle valve need to be in the right spot and also need a small bit of solder on the ends where they are slotted.I find this to be a good way to not have to take anything apart again,just rebuild the whole thing when apart the first time,hope it all works out for you.I see you did the emery trick did you use a flash light to see if you had a good fit on the plate in the carb?
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:25:50 AM
Wayne Riedlinger Wayne Riedlinger is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Check the fuel level in the carb. Could be it is not returning fast enough and the fuel is too high in the bowl so it runs over through the jet.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:51:52 AM
RSCurtis RSCurtis is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

I wonder if carburetor icing could be causing your problem. After shutting the engine off, the ice will melt and operation will return to normal.
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:53:16 AM
Harold Kuret Harold Kuret is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Sorry for letting this thread Hang. I am just back from a stay at the local hospital.

I'd like to thank everyone for there thoughts on the issue.

Thanks to Gee Willikers for spending many hours on the carb. We ended up slotting the holes in the butterfly plate and then used a bright flashlight and emery cloth to eliminate as much air leakage as possible between the butterfly and the carb walls. The tractor now idles down to just over 200 RPM and runs smooth as can be.

Thanks to Bubbles for shedding some light on the solder ring inside the carb, apparently this was a Rumley service bulletin that was installed in the field to stop the tractor from barking.

Harold
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:36:42 PM
Brasherman Brasherman is offline
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Default Re: Rumely X Carb problem

Sorry to hear about the hospital stay, glad you are out.

Also glad to hear it runs well!
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