Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep


this thread has 151 replies and has been viewed 25554 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 01-11-2013, 12:17:42 AM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,056
Thanks: 6,044
Thanked 3,681 Times in 1,155 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

I wonder if Tony is going to use his famous "manifold surfing" technique to machine off the built up exhaust ports!!!
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #62  
Old 01-11-2013, 05:15:28 AM
veroude veroude is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Boxtel, Holland, Netherlands
Posts: 166
Thanks: 177
Thanked 361 Times in 59 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Hi AC-lovers,

Nice job you guys are doing overthere !!
I'm also busy to make an AC 20-35 running again after more than 40 years of long sleep....
The pistons are already back in place, the heads are on, but I was wondering how many valve clearance the in- and exhaust valves must have.

Thanks from Holland, Europe
greetings, Marco
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to veroude For This Post:
  #63  
Old 01-11-2013, 09:41:18 AM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Marco,
Glad you brought that up. I also will need the valve settings because I do not have a manual.
Along with tappet clearance, is there a specific method of setting the cluttch properly?
Thanks for any help from those who know.

Phil, the weather is a bit inclimate for outdoor manifold surfing on the blacktop right now, but you can bet that I will be doing it as needed now that I have discovered this new sport. I have obtained a slow moving vehicle sign to strap on my back and this spring we may hold a first annual "mill off" competition with pitted manifolds, barbecue and beer
Tony
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tony Thompson For This Post:
  #64  
Old 01-11-2013, 10:46:24 AM
Richard Sturdy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Tony, The 20-35 handbook which I have does not specify valve clearances, but the Model A handbook specifies .012" "at normal operating temperature". As both tractors use the same basic engine, you may be sure that the clearances will be the same. After rebuilding, I set my 20-35 valves at .012 hot and there have been no problems at all since. Hope this helps.
Tricky Dickie

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:34 PM ----------

Tony, forgot to mention the clutch setting. There is a turnbuckle between the shoes for adjustment purposes. There is a plate on the left hand side of the clutch housing through which this can be accessed easily for adustment purposes. As with other non-spring clutches, when correctly adjusted the AC clutch should require reasonably hefty arm stength to snap it over-centre into engagement. When disengaged, it should clear freely to allow gear selection. Experimentation/common sense will lead you to the correct setting to eliminate slippage under load while keeping the arm strength needed reasonable.
Tricky Dickie
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to For This Post:
  #65  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:58:47 AM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,056
Thanks: 6,044
Thanked 3,681 Times in 1,155 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Trickie's got it right. Valve clearance on the 20-35 engine is about .010-.012. They are a cool running engine and never seem to run hot. In fact, if I remember correctly, in the Nebraska Test they had trouble getting it over 140 deg.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
  #66  
Old 01-11-2013, 01:11:47 PM
jonathco jonathco is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Flint, Michigan
Posts: 12
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Wow, that's in great condition. Nice find!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jonathco For This Post:
  #67  
Old 01-11-2013, 04:50:23 PM
ihredo4 ihredo4 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Freeport, Illinois
Posts: 470
Thanks: 754
Thanked 382 Times in 213 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Thompson View Post
I have obtained a slow moving vehicle sign to strap on my back and this spring we may hold a first annual "mill off" competition with pitted manifolds, barbecue and beer
Tony
Tony, I have to ask on the SMV sign. Is it the standard or deluxe version? Deluxe has the built in pneumatic rump bumper just in case you slip while manifold surfing. Helps to save the derriere from being ground off. LOL

Love the job you are doing on this ole girl. I am developing a passion for these tractors after working on them a year ago.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ihredo4 For This Post:
  #68  
Old 01-13-2013, 09:12:21 AM
Brothers Clemens's Avatar
Brothers Clemens Brothers Clemens is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Haarlemmermeer, Lisserbroek, Netherlands
Posts: 6,269
Thanks: 13,193
Thanked 18,190 Times in 4,172 Posts
Thumbs up Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Tony,

Have been watching your article about kids dads & tractors in the AP.

Have seen the restauretion of Ben his Minneapolis already overhere.
Ben have done an wondeful job and it is an great article.

Keep go on with this.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Brothers Clemens For This Post:
  #69  
Old 01-13-2013, 08:12:45 PM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihredo4
Tony, I have to ask on the SMV sign. Is it the standard or deluxe version?
Red IH,
You have been here, we live good, but nothing deluxe...If I fall on my ass I deserve it, thats all.

Clemens Bros,
Thank you for paying attention to my small contributions to the hobby! Ben is a fine young man and will be good to have in the MM-TC collector corner.

My Allis 20-35 has this after-market? oil filter canister on it.
Can anyone tell me what brand it is, what element it may take, and how to hook it up correctly?
It has a grease fitting blocking off upper fitting. I need to remove the canister or hook it up to work right....
Any advice on this would be appreiciated very much.
Tony
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0745.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	136.6 KB
ID:	154894  
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tony Thompson For This Post:
  #70  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:15:32 PM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is offline
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois, USA
Posts: 6,532
Thanks: 7,568
Thanked 6,053 Times in 3,105 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Tony, it looks like a Purolator canister. I don't know what element will fit today, what we do is find a new style cartridge that will go in the unit and make some end caps to seal it in the canister. Most times I just cut the ends off the old cartridge and add a spring on top to hold them in place as on the newer types, if you get it set up right it works real well. The pressure feeds thru the filter from the side, the filtered oil drains back to the crankcase thru the bottom center fitting. The pressure feed should be from the pressure manifold same as the pressure gauge. It looks as there is a fitting pluged off at the oil manifold close to the bottom of the canister with a grease zerk as well, if so thats likely where it was tapped in. F.J.W.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FWurth For This Post:
  #71  
Old 01-14-2013, 09:51:37 AM
kracked1 kracked1 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Owatonna, Minnesota
Posts: 20
Thanks: 11
Thanked 23 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

I would agree that you need to install a line between the 2 grease zerks.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kracked1 For This Post:
  #72  
Old 01-20-2013, 06:54:03 PM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep


Have been disassembling, cleaning and inspecting more of the engine on the Allis. I have pulled the bottom cover from oil pan, side covers, removed lifters and head studs. Several bolts, studs and lock washers will be replaced as needed.
The engine is standard bore, everything is really clean and looks to be in very nice condition
The oil pump screen was not obstructed with debris and there was what I feel to be a thin or "normal" amount of thickened oil sludge across the bottom of pan that slid out easilly and did not contain any metal shavings or parts. Cam, lifters and valve train is all excellent! There is no movement at main and rod bearings and all journal caps have a tidy arrangement of shims, unmolested castle nuts and a precise display of cotter key installation!
If progress continues in this manor, This could be one of the easiest minor restorations I have ever done
Last photo shows the Oil level drain cocks. I took those apart and installed new washers and cotter keys to make them seat correctly without leaks. In this photo the camera flash makes two colors of green show up. Someone has done a great deal of maintanence on this machine long ago that included a paint job. No paint for me. I am hoping to get much of the remnants of repaint off and stick to the wonderful satin leather brown patina that so many of us here covet.
More to come......
Tony
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0994.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	106.6 KB
ID:	155475   Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0986.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	83.6 KB
ID:	155476   Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0988.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	112.9 KB
ID:	155477   Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0987.jpg
Views:	171
Size:	104.6 KB
ID:	155478  
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:19:03 PM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Most of my tractor interior knowledge revolves around Twin City and this is my first green Allis.

Got a question for the Allis collectors who may be able to help me with a rather tiny detail.

First photo shows the oil pressure manifold on the lower right side of block. I have unbolted the manifold and held it up to show how the oil pump would send oil from pan up into the manifold and then through block via gasketed ports. On the inside (second photo) you can see where oil is delivered to main bearings by way of copper tube.
There are four threaded holes in the top side of oil pressure manifold. Fittings are threaded in to send oil from front of manifold to oil drive gears at front of engine, from middle of manifold to top end and from rear of manifold to oil pressure gauge. there is a fourth fitting to deliver oil to the filter canister that is missing. It is plugged off with a grease fitting.
(see third photo).
The rear fitting to pressure gauge is "full flow" or large diameter to deliver full oil pressure to gauge. The front two fittings are restrictor type that have a tiny hole about the diameter of a pencil lead.
If you look at the fourth photo of manifold in my bench vise, it may become hard when you try to focus on the wire, but if you try you will see the fitting hole is about the size of the wire you are having trouble focusing on.
Here is where I need help...
The fitting to deliver oil to the filter assembly is missing (plugged with grease fitting) and I need to know if I should install a resticted fitting to filter or a full flow fitting?
Will I have enough oil pressure left for engine if I go full flow to filter? I like to use filters when possible...should I use this one or is there a better choice?
If you refer back to post # 69 you can see filter assembly.
Thanks for any opinions or help!
Tony
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0990.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	99.9 KB
ID:	155700   Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0989.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	98.3 KB
ID:	155701   Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0992.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	72.1 KB
ID:	155702   Click image for larger version

Name:	HPIM0998.jpg
Views:	259
Size:	128.5 KB
ID:	155703  
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Tony Thompson For This Post:
  #74  
Old 01-22-2013, 04:39:52 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,138
Thanks: 389
Thanked 1,325 Times in 548 Posts
Cool Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

What model of European is that in background of picture four?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 01-22-2013, 06:50:56 PM
J Dayman J Dayman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 359
Thanks: 495
Thanked 225 Times in 139 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

Looks like a Brunette 38-24, not sure whether there's a PTO....

If all your farm hands look like that I'll drop over!

JD
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to J Dayman For This Post:
  #76  
Old 01-22-2013, 07:30:30 PM
ronm ronm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Fruita, Colorado USA
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 2,904
Thanked 3,040 Times in 1,624 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

You're a bad boy, Tony!!!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ronm For This Post:
  #77  
Old 01-22-2013, 08:04:27 PM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,056
Thanks: 6,044
Thanked 3,681 Times in 1,155 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

That's why I have trouble focusing on the wire in photo 4.

I have a spare oil manifold on my parts shelf from a '27, Tony. I checked the fitting and it is full flow.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
  #78  
Old 01-22-2013, 09:57:47 PM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is offline
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois, USA
Posts: 6,532
Thanks: 7,568
Thanked 6,053 Times in 3,105 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

I think the density of the filter material in the element does make a major difference. Those early Purolator elements were made of cotton waste and are dense material, newer paper elements allow easier flow thru them and may lower your pressure reading, if to low you may have to put a restriction in the line. On the newer Allis tractors (WD etc) there is a restriction on the feed line that goes up into the element that is there to help hold the pressure up to a safe level. Just food for thought. F.J.W.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to FWurth For This Post:
  #79  
Old 01-22-2013, 11:14:23 PM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,060
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

[QUOTE=Molinegb;867513]What model of European is that?

GB,
The calendar hanging above my bench is from RM Muller in Germany and for January has a 1957 Eicher 1 cylinder diesel.
I believe several of the drivers are German as well. The rather brilliant calendar is a gift from a fellow Stakker here...can anyone guess who that would be?

I have plowed (ploughed)? my thank you button under again.
Thanks for responces guys...I will go full flow to the filter with a new paper element and see what I get for oil pressure.

You guys were supposed to be looking at the wire not the calendar
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 01-22-2013, 11:32:59 PM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,056
Thanks: 6,044
Thanked 3,681 Times in 1,155 Posts
Default Re: 1927 Allis 20-35 rescued from long sleep

The original Purolator filter element in those Allis engines is a spring about 3" in diameter and covered with a "sock" like filter element which doesn't have a lot of restriction. It's designed to be removed every so often and pumped up and down like an accordian in a bucket of solvent or gas to clean it out. This is from the operations manual.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Early 1919 Twin City Rescued From Long Sleep Tony Thompson Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 176 06-13-2014 08:06:44 PM
Can't sleep until I get this engine! Elwood Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 28 02-19-2011 10:16:29 PM
one more sleep Sawyer-Massey 11-22 Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 2 12-25-2006 10:56:56 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:18:14 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277