Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D) Restoration


this thread has 258 replies and has been viewed 95604 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:45:06 AM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,059
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Sounds good Phil,
We should be celebrating the remains that were found and looking forward to whatever Wendel and the boys can make of it rather than nit-picking what it is or is not.
An exciting discovery was made...it is getting fixed by some of the best hands in the hobby...when it is done we will all have a better idea what this special piece of history was supposed to look like...isn't that good enough?
Let the resurrectors use this thread to document the fixing of this missing piece of Deere history as best they can, not as a personal debate forum for overanalyzing and opinion tossing that tends to derail the thread.
The story of how these remains were discovered and the people involved along with the actual fixing of this missing link should be the focus for this thread...you know, discovery, people connection, brilliant resto work, maybe just enjoy what these good folks can give us instead of trying so hard to label it
Tony
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #42  
Old 06-12-2013, 09:46:20 PM
Brasherman Brasherman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,037
Thanks: 6,296
Thanked 1,280 Times in 912 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Dear Tony,
You are asking others to fight human nature. After all, we can't even categorize the elected leaders properly without debate (I'm siding with reptiles for Congress), so this is inevitable! I, however, only await the next pics with baited breath!

Corey
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Brasherman For This Post:
  #43  
Old 06-13-2013, 07:09:34 AM
IWL BCNU IWL BCNU is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Barboursville, VA
Posts: 288
Thanks: 5
Thanked 177 Times in 79 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

So what happens when it is all together and blows up right away. They did abandon the idea for a reason.
Hope it doesn't happen, good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-13-2013, 02:33:54 PM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is online now
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois, USA
Posts: 6,531
Thanks: 7,568
Thanked 6,049 Times in 3,103 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

If it has a difficulty I believe Wendell is up to the challenge. The one issue I see is the clutch drive gear set up in side the crankcase, in order for that to work the drive hub must revolve on the crankshaft and also revolve in the crankcase as well. That means two main bearings stacked together, that's a lot of required bearing clearance on one end of the shaft and the real possibility for the hub to wobble or bind up and seize to the shaft rendering the clutch unable to release. Also makes it a real challenge to get proper lubrication to the crank. I think that was also mentioned in the original notes when it was built? Just following along with this project on the site is like watching the engineers when they were designing it as they worked out the details. F.J.W.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to FWurth For This Post:
  #45  
Old 06-13-2013, 06:35:12 PM
Dan thomas Dan thomas is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Plain City, Ohio, USA
Posts: 196
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 753 Times in 133 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

The "1th" reduction gear has a sleeve that revolves on the crank .It has several holes in it for oil to get to the crank, the outside of 1th reduct gear rides on a hyatt roller bearing. You are right that they did have trouble with the crank getting dry of oil and seezing up-that does have me concerned as i am afraid that will happen at a bad time, say with people around. We have to have a solution for that.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	019-2.JPG
Views:	438
Size:	66.2 KB
ID:	167346   Click image for larger version

Name:	021.JPG
Views:	398
Size:	65.3 KB
ID:	167347  
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Dan thomas For This Post:
  #46  
Old 06-13-2013, 11:23:03 PM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is online now
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois, USA
Posts: 6,531
Thanks: 7,568
Thanked 6,049 Times in 3,103 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

I wonder if it would be possible to put oil seals on either side of the Hyatt bearing and pressure feed it and force the oil into the crank bearing sleeve? I assume it uses a external force feed oil pump similar to the setup on Hart Parr's. The pump that feeds that station could be turned up to supply more to that one. As the design of the crankcase is a dry sump there isn't any or at least very little chance of any splash lubrication to help keep the sleeve wet other wise. Obviously Deere engineers cured the issue with the correct engineering on the finished product but if this unit can be made to be reasonably reliable for the light duty of running display would be great. Just thinking out loud, definitely a challenge. F.J.W.

Last edited by FWurth; 06-13-2013 at 11:42:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:36:08 AM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is online now
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois, USA
Posts: 6,531
Thanks: 7,568
Thanked 6,049 Times in 3,103 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Just looking at your picture of that 1st reduction gear, all of those holes drilled in the collar SCREAMS "I will break here!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Kelch View Post
...AGAIN My best guess is that what they used on the 2nd prototype they took off this tractor and what was a bad idea they left on this carcass!...
Probably an accurate assumption. The write-up Covert posted seems to imply that the next style kept most of the design except for the bath tub.

Frank W (Jr)

Last edited by FWurth; 06-14-2013 at 10:49:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-25-2013, 10:31:33 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

We have been working on the Waterloo Boy Exp. On Paper! We have drew up the transmission casting and drew up the parts we have that we know the size of and shape of and are now filling in the missing blanks. It is coming slow but I feel we are getting a bunch of things nailed down. Nothing is for sure yet and as more parts go on it there will for sure be some changes made but this is the first rough draft of the belt pulley with the provision for a contracting band clutch. The clutch facing surface might get smaller and it might get recessed deeper into the pulley but we have to start somewhere. I just wanted to send you a few pictures on where we are going. It is in PDF file and I have never tried to put this on here so lets hope this works! Wendell Kelch
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy Exp 5.pdf (107.4 KB, 552 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Bo yExp 4.pdf (122.6 KB, 270 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy exp 1.pdf (124.2 KB, 259 views)
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-26-2013, 07:31:59 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

We are working on the gear shifting forks and rails today. The left shift rail casting was still there and the right one was missing. The gear shift was on the right side of the tractor. It is our best guess that the right shifter rail casting had a boss for the gear shifter shaft to slide in to hold that end of the shaft in place. Again this is the first draft. One shift fork will be pinned to one rail and the other one to the remaining rail . The 2 rails should give the forks good support. Wendell Kelch
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SHIFTERFORK_LARGE_WATERLOOBOY[1].pdf (94.6 KB, 254 views)
File Type: pdf TRACTORASSEMBLY4[1].pdf (335.3 KB, 228 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Wendell Kelch For This Post:
  #50  
Old 06-27-2013, 07:53:38 PM
Brad Hauck Brad Hauck is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Batavia, Ohio
Posts: 778
Thanks: 863
Thanked 1,855 Times in 484 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

I looked at this tractor on Saturday. It is an amazing piece of John Deere history.

Brad Hauck
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Brad Hauck For This Post:
  #51  
Old 06-27-2013, 09:19:39 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

We got more work done on the gear shifting linkage today. The right hand bracket that held the shifter rails in was missing and it made sense that the shifting rod had to be supported so we dreamed up this bracket and it looks correct.It looked like the rear shifting rod support also needed to support the steering wheel and shaft so we combined the 2 in one support. Looking in the pictures of revision 2 of the Bathtub D it does not look like there was a shifter quadrant on it? I will leave that with the owner if it needs one or not? We are making everything fit into the holes that are already in the bathtub of the Tractor. So far so good! Wendell Kelch
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy exp 10.pdf (125.1 KB, 199 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy Exp11.pdf (63.6 KB, 147 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy Exp 12.pdf (112.5 KB, 131 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy exp 13.pdf (65.7 KB, 139 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Wendell Kelch For This Post:
  #52  
Old 06-27-2013, 09:30:10 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Here is one last shot of it shifted into low gear. Low is the sliding gear slid to the left and reverse is the sliding gear slid to the right. My guess is that 2nd gear was road gear and seldom shifted into . The more parts we get on the drawing the more things are starting to make sense. It you look threw the hole for the steering shaft you can see we have clearance from the belt pulley. We can tweek it a little more if needed. Wendell Kelch
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy exp 14.pdf (333.3 KB, 250 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Wendell Kelch For This Post:
  #53  
Old 06-27-2013, 09:36:46 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

I need to admit also that I ALMOST got on my machinist LAST NERVE today! He told me that it didnt ALWAYS have to be my way! I told him to HUMOR ME!
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Wendell Kelch For This Post:
  #54  
Old 06-27-2013, 10:14:33 PM
Covert Covert is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Colchester, IL
Posts: 116
Thanks: 1,428
Thanked 204 Times in 63 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

The engineering/re-engineering going into this build/rebuild is mind blowing to a simpleton like me! Thank you so much for sharing this process, I can't help but think what the engineers in Waterloo could have done if they would have had some of the CAD capabilities we now have!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Covert For This Post:
  #55  
Old 06-28-2013, 08:54:48 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

We got the shifter shaft,steering shaft, brake band pulley and main case where it all has clearance and is pointing the right direction. The rear shifter and steering support casting had to be tweeked a little bit to the right so the steering shaft would clear the case and the brake band pulley. There is not much room on that side of the tractor when all the goodies get put in there. My machinist took off early today so we didnt get a full day in. Wendell Kelch
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy exp 16.pdf (251.2 KB, 214 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy exp 15.pdf (27.2 KB, 167 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Wendell Kelch For This Post:
  #56  
Old 06-28-2013, 11:47:27 PM
Brasherman Brasherman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,037
Thanks: 6,296
Thanked 1,280 Times in 912 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell Kelch View Post
I need to admit also that I ALMOST got on my machinist LAST NERVE today! He told me that it didnt ALWAYS have to be my way! I told him to HUMOR ME!
If he gets paid by the hour, what's he worried about? LOL!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07-05-2013, 11:26:05 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

We have made some good headway on the clutch this week. We have revised the contracting band clutch and inserted it into the belt pulley and made the clutch pulley removable for ease of casting. We are down to making the linkage to engage and disengage the contracting band for the clutch. As I have said before this is all in the drawing stage and is subject to change or be tweeked a little. The clutch hub will be locked onto the crankshaft with a tapered gibb key. There are a lot more pieces falling into place now! Wendell Kelch
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy Exp20.pdf (149.6 KB, 221 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy Exp 19.pdf (99.8 KB, 140 views)
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy Exp 17.pdf (117.8 KB, 133 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Wendell Kelch For This Post:
  #58  
Old 07-06-2013, 01:45:59 AM
Craig A's Avatar
Craig A Craig A is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 15,477
Thanks: 16,779
Thanked 20,663 Times in 5,983 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Having fixed the band clutch on the Hart Parr 30 I used to have I can tell you are dealing with some mighty small numbers in order for the clutch to work and STAY over-centered properly.
You'll find out.......
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Craig A For This Post:
  #59  
Old 07-06-2013, 10:58:47 PM
Oilpulled Oilpulled is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rockford, Illinois, USA
Posts: 4,089
Thanks: 11,945
Thanked 5,695 Times in 2,203 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Maybe you need to build in a little adjustment. Oilpull heavies have the turnbuckles and then they can go too far over center which can be corrected with shim washers behind the sliding yoke. You know about F Oilpulls, Wendell.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Oilpulled For This Post:
  #60  
Old 07-19-2013, 05:43:37 PM
Wendell Kelch Wendell Kelch is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bethel, Ohio, USA
Posts: 509
Thanks: 278
Thanked 11,718 Times in 417 Posts
Default Re: Waterloo Boy Experimental Tractor (Bathtub D)Restoration

Here is the latest print we got done today on the clutch linkage for the Waterloo Boy. It is coming together nice. Next week we are going to try and draw the linkage fron the lever to the pulley. Wendell Kelch
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Waterloo Boy Exp 14.pdf (139.3 KB, 350 views)
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Wendell Kelch For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Not quite a BathTub Pump GreasyIron Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines 14 08-03-2015 03:58:50 PM
Mystery Tractor - Experimental Hart Parr? Big 4-20 Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 3 09-25-2014 12:23:49 PM
16 HP Waterloo Restoration Paint Question Harold Kuret Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines 9 09-18-2014 03:07:54 PM
John Deere B Experimental Tractor? SteamTractors Antique Farm Tractors 4 12-28-2011 12:09:54 AM
Peeking out from underneath a bathtub, Cushman Cub dalmatiangirl61 Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 45 11-17-2011 02:44:52 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:30:56 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277