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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Rock Island F?


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  #61  
Old 12-02-2014, 01:47:08 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Find those journal specs anywhere??
I've got a 1930 Rebabbitted rods/mains catalog, and a 1936 exchange babbitted rods catalog; neither lists any Buda Y...
I've got a 1936 King (engine parts) and a 51 Fed-Mog brg catalog; both list brgs for the Y's, BUT FULLY INSERTED-no listing for any exchange rods/main caps...
Neither give journal diam, but DO GIVE inside diam of bearings, and more or less agree...more or less...such as (if my eyes haven't glazed over)
Rods--2.252-2.250 (undrilled/drilled 2 hole or 4 holes per half)
FM--2.105-2.115
CM--2.225-2.250
RM--2.350-2.375
Double flanged RM?? 2.356-2.365??? (typo??)
The question would be: if you have poured crank, would journals be same for an inserted crank??
If you want these will try emailing pix to show all dimensions and notes, and you can verify figures and sort out the mess.. With sympathy, Bud
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  #62  
Old 12-02-2014, 06:12:08 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

My motor guy says the bearings have no brass backing out of original motor with 2 1/8 crankshaft. Have one good rod from second motor and it has brass backing but is 2 1/4.
Machinist doesn't know how to pour bearings as they are different than normal.
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  #63  
Old 09-25-2015, 03:05:04 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

RM double flange is for YRA motor. YR had single flange.
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  #64  
Old 09-25-2015, 05:44:54 PM
rwood64083 rwood64083 is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Just read through your thread. Interesting find. I'm new to the old iron interest. I think your RI is the first old steel wheel tractor I've seen with duals that included the spokes. Typically all I've found were a few photos of steel wheel tractors with just the outer ring of the wheel bracketed and bolted to the inner wheel. I'm in the process of working on bolting a second set of steel wheels to the rear of my 22-36. Fun project and even more stout looking with the extra width.
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  #65  
Old 09-26-2015, 09:08:55 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Tractor originated from area where land was real sandy. Original owner had two F's. One was better than other so one was scrapped and wheels put on this one. Still undecided if they will stay on or not. Have had chance to sell set.
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Old 11-19-2015, 04:46:38 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

After coming to a stalemate trying to source conn rods have an update. With help of fellow Stakker have come up with motor parts to hopefully finish RI. A block with pistons and rods will arrive shortly. On apparent drawback is I may need one 4 1/2 three ring piston. One land is broken. Any pistons out there?

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  #67  
Old 11-19-2015, 05:11:35 PM
J Ware J Ware is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Would pistons from a 1939 and newer jd model b work, they are 4 1/2" bore. Jim
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  #68  
Old 11-19-2015, 05:38:23 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

I think I have been down this path once before. 1 1/2 inch pin. 3 inch compression height. Sure JD height is different.
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  #69  
Old 11-19-2015, 05:58:57 PM
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Craig A Craig A is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molinegb View Post
After coming to a stalemate trying to source conn rods have an update. With help of fellow Stakker have come up with motor parts to hopefully finish RI. A block with pistons and rods will arrive shortly. On apparent drawback is I may need one 4 1/2 three ring piston. One land is broken. Any pistons out there?

A broken land isn't the end of the world......that can be fixed.
Which land is broken?
It doesn't need 3 compression rings.
Pistons haven't had 3 compression rings for years.
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Old 11-19-2015, 08:35:01 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Buda originals with two compression,oil and scraper. I asked my machinist if the land could be repaired. He didn't know of anyone that had done one. How would it be done? Build up land area missing and cut down??
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  #71  
Old 11-19-2015, 11:43:08 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

15-30 McCormick Deering is 4 1/2". Also I know of some 4 1/2" TC 21-32 pistons at a neighbors place. If you think they have any possibilities I can check them out.
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  #72  
Old 11-19-2015, 11:56:52 PM
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

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Originally Posted by Molinegb View Post
Buda originals with two compression,oil and scraper. I asked my machinist if the land could be repaired. He didn't know of anyone that had done one. How would it be done? Build up land area missing and cut down??
Yup.......
The chances are pretty high the lands are shot anyway so you'll be looking for wider rings (or spacers) regardless.
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  #73  
Old 11-20-2015, 07:31:28 AM
G Willikers G Willikers is online now
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

For ring issues and rings contact Stak sponsor Mr. Reid:
http://www.ringspacers.com/
He knows his stuff! Just installed rings purchased from him and they are perfect. Have used his services for years.
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  #74  
Old 11-26-2015, 09:31:51 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Got a chance to look at motor parts that arrived. After 4 motors finally have a good block that doesn't need sleeved. Bore is good on all four at 4 1/2 at 30 over.Two pistons are cast and other two aren't. One with broken lands will be junked as well as other aluminum one. Found 2 cast pistons that are 4.6 but in good shape in BUDA pile of parts. My machinist will cut them down to match others in diameter.
Have to find longer piston pins. Need 1 1/4 x 4. Also need pin bushings 11/4 ID x 1 1/2 OD minimum 2 1/4 wide.. Conn rods are good but will need babbitted. Two have brass backing and other two are just poured.

After seeing these Buda motors were all a mess. No motor is same in dimensions!
Parts must have totally dried up when Case got into picture so to keep customers going whatever was used. In the one motor the rods were cut off and rod tops were welded on with 1 1/2 pins. They were used with a piston that measures 4 3/4. Bore was originally 4 1/2.
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  #75  
Old 11-26-2015, 10:59:59 PM
halcon halcon is offline
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Thumbs up Re: Rock Island F?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molinegb View Post
After seeing these Buda motors were all a mess. No motor is same in dimensions!
Parts must have totally dried up when Case got into picture so to keep customers going whatever was used. In the one motor the rods were cut off and rod tops were welded on with 1 1/2 pins. They were used with a piston that measures 4 3/4. Bore was originally 4 1/2.
I knew a gentle man who was farming with 1 of these in Manitoba in the 1930s. when the buda died he hacksawed the engine out of a 15-27 cross motor case and installed it in the rock island. I start to sweat just thinking about it. He made a beautiful job of it and didn't have a big shop either. He had me drive this tractor in a parade in about 1990 at Frobisher sask
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  #76  
Old 11-27-2015, 09:21:12 AM
J Ware J Ware is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Would loke to see pictures of that tractor. There is a gentlman that has a 10-20 McCormick Deering that his great uncle made 4 wheel drive back during WW2 with simple hand tools, Jim
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  #77  
Old 11-27-2015, 09:34:46 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Clyde
Any idea why Buda motors had problems? Poor oil, no maintenance or just a poor design?
I know oil pump is way too light for motor of this size.


Gary
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  #78  
Old 11-27-2015, 03:10:37 PM
halcon halcon is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molinegb View Post
Clyde
Any idea why Buda motors had problems? Poor oil, no maintenance or just a poor design?
I know oil pump is way too light for motor of this size.


Gary
I have never had much to do with old budas. They likely had some design and or quality issues. Then becoming an orphan would make help tough to find.
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  #79  
Old 11-27-2015, 03:32:49 PM
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

Even tho Rock Island no longer supplied repairs, Buda was around a long time till Allis bought them out. Allis mainly was after the plant, not the product as Buda was very out dated design wise. Those early motors were primarily designed for the light truck market of the time, tractor use was an after thought. Like many of their competitors of the time, they worked well enough for trucks but tractor service wore them out fairly fast. The very last offering from Rock Island went to the heavy duty Waukesha but by the time it got on the market the company was sold.
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  #80  
Old 11-27-2015, 10:00:22 PM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
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Default Re: Rock Island F?

My thoughts were that AC was after the Buda diesel motors that were built in 1938. Buda was originally built for marine application?

The Buda mystery gets deeper. After getting motor plans together I find the original head is different and block! The head and block on tractor when I tore it down are off some other Buda conglomeration! No casting numbers on head or block. I am lucky to have an original GE 502 head to match the block I just bought.

Will post pix soon to show difference. Head gaskets also not same.
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