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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Rumely 12-20 Restoration


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  #41  
Old 02-18-2015, 09:44:30 AM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

more cleaning leads to more surprises. started off with pleasant surprise, the bore has a nearly non-existent taper. got my new rings and a nice tight end gap. so I was going to start fitting the rings onto the pistons. ok, a very thorough cleaning and put them on, right. top of the other piston looks like a fracture. take the piston to the blast cabinet after I took off the rod to blast inside to get the literal carbonized rock hard oil off the bottom of piston face. damn
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  #42  
Old 02-18-2015, 09:53:10 AM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

also the bushing for the wrist pin,....need to call on some experience here. before I took the bolt off the end of the rod that is supposed to hold the bushing from spinning I noticed I could rotate it to a small degree. ok, so after I took it off, you can see how through the years of service the part of the bolt that protrudes through and into the bushing (just a bit) to hold it from rotating and sliding has worn a groove into the bushing...I think. so a couple questions, is it still useable as is? is it the way is should be? should I make new ones? each side is similar so either keep both or make 2 new ones. there are spectacular glues out there that I could use to glue the bushing in as well. we use them or bushings in the front pin bushings in our john deere track tractors (the new ones, not dozers). maybe I can put bushing in opposite way so through the next 100 years, it wears into the other side of the bushing...
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  #43  
Old 02-18-2015, 09:56:17 AM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

general pics, the engine is getting smaller by the day. original decal. anxious for the day when I can bolt my first 2 parts together
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  #44  
Old 02-18-2015, 03:54:53 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

So what do you think cracked the piston heads...preignition? Before making a decision on the pin bushing carefully measure the bushing OD and the rod bore ID. Chances are that both pieces are out of round....the bushing undersize and the rod bore oversize.
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  #45  
Old 02-18-2015, 06:31:32 PM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

mark, thanks for the advice on measuring.... in regards to cracked pistons, my first thought was a block a wood and a big hammer. but, strange that both would be cracked. honestly cant say for sure. but I do know for sure that I will be very careful repairing it. may sound dumb but 1 idea would be bolting a plate to the top of the piston...would have to do both and maybe would gain a half a horse power too! seriously though I plan to braze it... it worked in the other piston it appears so it should on this one too.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

a simple flip of the bearing wont work because of the etched in oil trough is only on one side of the bearing,( could put in a trough on opposite side) plus I just don't like how they feel. too loose for my liking. so I have been searching for a suitable material for getting, making, machining new ones.
it seems that cast bronze sae 660 floats to the top of the list.
honorable mentions to bronze 544, 863. don't know what all the numbers mean, but McMaster has 660 in a number of sizes, enough for a good start for sure! may need machining but that is ok....

looking for opinions for the wrist pin bushing now. so help this young guy out. this rumely is no john deere! cant simply get parts anywhere...
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  #46  
Old 02-18-2015, 07:58:09 PM
Bryan Storey Bryan Storey is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

I have ordered quite a few bronze bushings for gas engine wrist pin bushings and tractor projects from this site asbbearingsonline.com . I order them online and have them in a couple days. Havnt gotten any in a couple years but prices were usually pretty good.
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  #47  
Old 02-18-2015, 08:30:24 PM
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Craig A Craig A is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

The 660 bronze is fine........git 'er dun.......
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  #48  
Old 02-18-2015, 10:35:47 PM
halcon halcon is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

brazing those pistons might work but would be better welded with cast iron and acetylene. bronze is hot short above about 400 degrees those pistons get pretty hot as displayed by the carborized oil on the under side. All so susceptible to bimetal corrosion at higher temperatures.
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  #49  
Old 02-19-2015, 07:37:10 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

Larson Welding in Fargo does excellent work repairing stuff like this and Jim would be the perfect expert to talk to about this. But I'm sure you know that already. He has done many cast iron repairs for us but probably not pistons. As a little side note we do have a 40hp Otto at Rollag that always have poor compression and severe blowby despite working on the bore and new rings, etc. Turns out the piston had been braised back together in the first ring groove and was very porous. It was leaking compression through the braising. The engine ran okay but one day it developed a knock. We investigated the bearings. OK. we pulled the piston to check the wrist pin. Okay but...The end of the piston had broken off at the braising. The knock was the piston head slamming back against the piston every time it fired. Amazing it still ran at all. I'll let my brother Keven fill you in on how he repaired it if he cares to chime in. Highly unusual repair but it worked and the engine has more compression now that it's ever had since we've had it.
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  #50  
Old 02-19-2015, 09:12:18 AM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

Going to get packing at larsons this morning so I loaded some parts to get Jim's opinion. Cast oxy welding is fine as far as I am concerned. I too thought of the melting point of brazing..... Will be loaded with info by the weekend.....then watch out! Good or bad
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  #51  
Old 02-19-2015, 04:32:27 PM
Bob in Mi. Bob in Mi. is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

If you need new fenders we may be able to help. We make a full line of the flat top fenders for early IH, Along with that we also do fenders for other makes and models. Pretty much anything made of sheet metal. Clam shell type fenders we do not make for the later tractors. Email 4bobclark@gmail.com if you have questions.
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  #52  
Old 02-19-2015, 05:12:50 PM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

got my packing today from larsons, Jim said to braze the piston top. so that is the plan. lots to do this weekend. bushings ordered, and then a bit of machining. radiator gaskets and head gasket picked up fro Biewer's this morning. gonna be fun if anyone is bored this weekend.
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  #53  
Old 02-20-2015, 02:45:11 PM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

Last night progress was slow. ne packings in rear axle. 5\8 inch had to round it off some to fit into the groove. block is back on and then broke a mounting stud. near crapped my pants because I thought I pulled it through the case....but wasnt wrenching hard. no big deal though. welded a nut on it and threaded it out....just time.
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  #54  
Old 02-20-2015, 04:58:07 PM
Langes Machine Shop Langes Machine Shop is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

I wouldn't use bronze on that piston. Bronze does not like that heat and exhaust, cast iron would work much better in that spot.
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  #55  
Old 02-20-2015, 05:13:04 PM
Kevin A. Behnke Kevin A. Behnke is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

I have brazed pistons and they have run for many years no problem. The pistons in your car are aluminum a much softer and lower melting point material. That old repair most likely did a lot of work with no problem. Sometimes we over think this stuff. Kevin
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  #56  
Old 02-20-2015, 07:26:41 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

I would trust Jim Briden's advice. He's been in that shop a long time (even before it was his) and has done a lot of this kind of stuff.
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  #57  
Old 02-20-2015, 09:29:51 PM
19-65Port 19-65Port is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

Don't braze the piston it will burn away and get weak, we have removed brazed valves and pistons from engines we have rebuilt. Almost all the braze was burned away, make a pattern and cast new pistons. A piston pattern Is simple and you can use your old one for a pattern. You will be more satisfied with the end result when you fix the tractor properly.
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  #58  
Old 02-21-2015, 10:38:38 AM
Langes Machine Shop Langes Machine Shop is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

I am not over thinking this stuff, I am just going by what my grandfather and my fathers advice from running our shop for over 85 years. There are better things to weld that piston with than bronze. Using cast rod with a torch or using a spray torch with cast powder, there is a reason you don't weld a manifold with bronze same thing on the piston. The heat will work harden the bronze and it will crack again, cast won't.
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  #59  
Old 02-22-2015, 07:54:18 PM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

Sons birthday party and wrong size packing made for a slower weekend than planned. but did drop the tranny and started cutting some gaskets. never done power washing so did that for a good hour, and cleaned shop for a good our too I bet.
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:08:18 AM
LukeSte LukeSte is offline
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Default Re: Rumely 12-20 Restoration

Took bottom of transmission off tonight. no surprises. gears all look fine enough. put in all new gaskets. packing in the tranmission for the bearing covers is .25 inch square. chipped more crap from under side of the other piston. mark, I believe over heating Is what cracked the pistons....nothing was going to cool with an inchof this inside the piston. this has to be the same stuff as apollo 13 had on it to reenter the atmosphere. maybe tomrw we can get the wrist pins done.
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Last edited by LukeSte; 02-24-2015 at 01:35:07 AM.
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