Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"


this thread has 251 replies and has been viewed 28983 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 07-16-2016, 11:44:16 PM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 436
Thanks: 506
Thanked 485 Times in 203 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Magneto on mine were ZR4 American Bosch same as 1728 with anti clock rotation. And my 2 have different hotspot manifolds early and late. Both Wheeler Scheblers and if memory serves right the A is on the 1928 and the 26 is an A? If you ever wanted to road trip north you can take pics.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #42  
Old 07-17-2016, 03:42:47 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

ajs2744TC....Thanks for the info. I had thought that perhaps the 27-44's were outfitted with the American Bosch ZR4 magnetos as that's what was on my 1926 17-28 also. Does anyone know if the ZR4 mag was retained until the end of production or was there another update after the merger?

According to the 1924 parts book the 20-35 was first outfitted with the America Bosch DU4 mag and then switched to the AT4 model. This tractor was equipped with the AT4 magneto. Phil already had this one rebuilt when I bought the tractor so that much is behind me. A nice job done by Adrian's Magneto Service.

Because of the extra gears in the cam drives the Twin Cams use a counterclockwise rotation on the magneto. Keep this in mind when looking for a replacement mag as the vast majority of the ones for sale are clockwise rotation units.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 141.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	196.3 KB
ID:	258399   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 138.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	219.6 KB
ID:	258400   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 139.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	155.3 KB
ID:	258401  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #43  
Old 07-17-2016, 04:49:14 PM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,059
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider View Post
Hi John
Welcome to the Stak! You should be able to learn what you want to know here as there is some very knowledgeable Twin City fellas here.
We would be interested in the serial number on your tractor as well as pictures if you can figure out how to post them. I know it took me a while to learn.

I do not have a picture of John's tractor anymore, but if it helps the serial is 323 making it a 1927.
I helped him ID it years ago and have not heard from him in some time.
Tony
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tony Thompson For This Post:
  #44  
Old 07-18-2016, 11:40:00 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Back to the trip....
We left John T's around noon. From there we visited the Jorstad Farm north of Tioga to pick up a couple parts for my Twin City 17-28 that Phil Johnson had sent down last year before I got involved with this 20-35 purchase. The Jorstads have a respectable collection of Allis-Chalmers tractors that goes from the Long fenders to the newer Two Twenty's. We didn't stay too long there as we wanted to be home before dark. Got on Hwy 2 by Tioga and then picked up Hwy 52 at Minot which took us home. Rolled in the yard at 8:00 PM Monday evening. It was a great trip and good to be back at home!

On the way back I had given some thought as how to simplify the unloading procedure. The pictures are pretty self explanatory. I was able to support the rear of the trailer with my old Michigan loader and instead of blocking the trailer I set it right on the ground. Everything went smoothly and it was a lot less jacking!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 039.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	228.5 KB
ID:	258495   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 040.jpg
Views:	155
Size:	232.1 KB
ID:	258496   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 045.jpg
Views:	164
Size:	293.4 KB
ID:	258497   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 046.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	196.1 KB
ID:	258498  
Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #45  
Old 07-23-2016, 12:53:22 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

I see I need to correct a mistake I made on post #40. Somehow I managed to get the 4 and the 6 switched around on the serial #. The correct number is 3604 not 3406. Sorry for the misinformation.

My original intentions after unloading were to leave the tractor sit until winter time. Well that plan lasted about a week. I decided to dig into it in case I ran into some major problems that would take a large block of time to sort out. I hit upon a plan to tear it apart outside and move the more delicate pieces inside. I figured the tractor carcass would be all right sitting outside for awhile.

So tear down is quite advanced at this point. I'll basically post the pictures chronologically and share my parts needs and/or ask advice when we get to the pieces that need to be repaired or replaced. So here we go...

A couple of interesting things I noticed on the walk around:

#1. The Serial Number tag.
#2. There is no engine number on the block. A good indication that this motor is not the original one. Do power units use this number?
#3. This number "2035" is written on the right side of the engine frame. The markings remind me of those typically used in a salvage yard. Maybe the front frame has been replaced also?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 181.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	246.1 KB
ID:	258753   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 054.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	169.8 KB
ID:	258754   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 050.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	265.3 KB
ID:	258755  
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #46  
Old 07-24-2016, 12:48:53 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

The steering and front end parts on this tractor show plenty of hard use.
Nothing pristine here!

#1. Both the drag link and tie rod have a number of small kinks in them which show that they have been straightened numerous times.

#2. The somewhat abused "front reach" or better known as the wishbone. The parts book I have pictures the angle braces as round stock with flattened ends. I would like a couple of pictures of what this was supposed to look like before the "Canadian" modifications.

#3. Steering arm broke off a good relationship with left spindle but was later rejoined with lots of harmonious welding.

#4. The front axle yoke has been broken in half and the 2 large bolts that hold it to the bottom of the engine frame are bent. I am in the market for these parts. The yoke # is TY-9B which was also used on the later 12-20's and early 17-28's with the arched front axle. Used on the small twin cams #15242 to #24983.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 051.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	259.9 KB
ID:	258813   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 053.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	342.6 KB
ID:	258814   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 058.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	232.8 KB
ID:	258815   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 052.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	167.4 KB
ID:	258816  
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #47  
Old 07-24-2016, 08:09:05 AM
J Ware J Ware is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Morrice, Michigan
Posts: 590
Thanks: 309
Thanked 915 Times in 332 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Mark, you just have to look at all those repairs as character, which I believe all tractors have. I like to leave some of this in my restorations because the tractor earned it in dutiful service. Jim
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to J Ware For This Post:
  #48  
Old 07-24-2016, 10:44:05 AM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,054
Thanks: 6,037
Thanked 3,676 Times in 1,153 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Mark, There are some TC 17-28 parts in the classifieds at the moment that are not too far from you in Minnesota. Looks like the front yoke etc. are there.
I didn't notice those repairs on that tractor when I had it other than the well reinforced reach for the front axle.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
  #49  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:35:43 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Ware View Post
Mark, you just have to look at all those repairs as character, which I believe all tractors have. I like to leave some of this in my restorations because the tractor earned it in dutiful service. Jim
Jim...I'm no perfectionist. The less than perfect steering rods and repaired steering arm are good to go. However the axle yoke was originally designed to anchor the front axle of a 5000# tractor. On the 20-35 the same yoke is used on a 9500# tractor...marginal at best. If this one has been compromised I think it best to replace it if I can.

The front reach is bent and currently doesn't support the end thrust of the axle properly which is how the yoke bolts got bent. The right and left angle braces are built out of different sizes of stock. The overall appearance is pretty ragged so currently the plan is to fabricate a more original looking replacement once I have a better idea on how it was laid out.

Phil...Thanks for the parts lead. I'll check it out.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-26-2016, 12:03:58 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

The first thing I removed were the hood and fenders. I'm pretty sure the hood is original as it has the rolled and riveted edges but I'm not sure the if the rear fenders are. Tony Thompson's 1922 20-35 has a serial number that's close to this one and the beading on his original fenders is different. The sheet metal is in "well used" condition with the fenders looking like they were pushed on by a loader tractor at one time. I'm not a sheet metal man so there is no real plan in place as far as repair or replacement. It will be awhile until I need them.

I included a picture of Tony's tractor for comparison.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 056.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	208.3 KB
ID:	258918   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 057.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	235.0 KB
ID:	258919   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 059.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	227.5 KB
ID:	258920   Click image for larger version

Name:	Tony's 20-35.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	67.5 KB
ID:	258921  
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #51  
Old 07-26-2016, 12:20:53 AM
ajs2744TC ajs2744TC is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Wilton/Bemidji, MN u.s.a.
Posts: 436
Thanks: 506
Thanked 485 Times in 203 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Looks like a workable pair of 2744 fenders. Hood does appear correct for a 20-35. I'm sure that those were the replacement option for your tractor back when. Last time I checked fenders were 500$ a set but they make a restoration look great.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ajs2744TC For This Post:
  #52  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:44:48 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Twin City fenders are fairly light gauge. There is a number of stress fractures on the fenders I have especially the LF one and I'm sure more would appear once the kinks were hammered out. These would have to be welded and at my current skill level would probably look pretty ragged upon completion. Maybe new would be the way to go.

Some more teardown pictures. When I removed the water pump I discovered a phenomenal amount of debris in the cooling system. The merry little field mice gained access to it either through the open drain plug hole and/or the rusted out lower radiator pipe and turned the water jackets and radiator into a regular little rodent "Taj Mahal". Lots of debris in the top radiator tank. The water pump will be getting a new shaft as this one is quite corroded.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 062.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	221.8 KB
ID:	258981   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 064.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	242.8 KB
ID:	258982   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 077.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	152.2 KB
ID:	258983   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 063.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	208.5 KB
ID:	258984  
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #53  
Old 07-27-2016, 11:48:17 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

I knew with that amount of rust showing in the top radiator tank that the core would be full of the same. Getting the core and the lower tank cleaned out looked like a tough proposition so I opted to disassemble the radiator.
It turned out to be the thing to do. The crank tube in the lower radiator tank must have given problems in the past as it had been welded previously. Unfortunately for me the repair area had re-cracked. An inspection of the core itself showed numerous stress cracks in the upper and lower header plates so it looks like a new replacement radiator core will be necessary. How does one go about getting one of these made?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 078.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	199.3 KB
ID:	259066   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 080.jpg
Views:	82
Size:	207.7 KB
ID:	259067   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 079.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	227.7 KB
ID:	259068   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 082.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	206.8 KB
ID:	259069  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #54  
Old 07-28-2016, 08:41:13 AM
Molinegb Molinegb is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melita MB Canada
Posts: 1,134
Thanks: 389
Thanked 1,322 Times in 545 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

I had both my TC cores made in Winnipeg. Just gave them originals.Little pricey!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Molinegb For This Post:
  #55  
Old 07-28-2016, 10:15:16 AM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,054
Thanks: 6,037
Thanked 3,676 Times in 1,153 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

I get mine made here locally also. Just give them the old core and they build you a new one just like it. As Gary said, it can be a little pricey due to the high cost of copper.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
  #56  
Old 07-28-2016, 11:27:04 AM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glenville, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 2,488
Thanks: 8,059
Thanked 8,201 Times in 1,344 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Mark,
When you check around for a radiator core, price one from General Radiator in Chicago.
1-800-336-2444
They are an industrial radiator manufacturing facility that makes them for many other shops.
I have some helpful info on my "1927 allis 20-35 rescued from log sleep" thread about their radiator cores. Look on page five.
Have them fax you a core measuring chart so they can get it the right size by having both parties understand just how the cores are measured.
I have a chart here that I could e-mail you, but it will not load on the forum.
I order cores with oversize "trim to fit" top and bottom plate, drill the holes myself and solder in my own overflow pipe to save money and make sure they fit nice.
Tony
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Tony Thompson For This Post:
  #57  
Old 07-28-2016, 11:33:03 PM
Oilpulled Oilpulled is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Rockford, Illinois, USA
Posts: 4,089
Thanks: 11,940
Thanked 5,694 Times in 2,203 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Are those cracks in the header or just cracks in rust from the casting? We have a leaky radiator on a 20-35 also.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07-29-2016, 12:05:33 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carrington, North Dakota
Posts: 1,163
Thanks: 1,976
Thanked 2,835 Times in 735 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Thanks Tony. Your well documented restoration threads have already proven useful to me and no doubt others as well. I see that General Radiator has a website also and it looks like inquiries can easily be made via email. I'll relay any information that I find out as others may be in the same radiator predicament as I am.

When I was contemplating buying this tractor I had Phil check three things out for me.
1. A visual check under the valve covers to see if water had gotten into the engine through the vents.
2. A visual check through the crankcase handholes to check for slung babbitt.
3. A bore scope check of each cylinder to see if the mice had gotten inside.

When I removed the exhaust manifold I found out just how close the mice were to getting inside the cylinders. The engine happened to stop at a point where the exhaust valve openings were too small to allow passage. Their residence did play havoc with some of the valves however.

Needed exhaust manifold work includes flange and crack repair plus probably resurfacing. Note that clever "Canadian" anti-theft device in the exhaust runner!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 066.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	198.6 KB
ID:	259111   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 067.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	245.0 KB
ID:	259112   Click image for larger version

Name:	TC 20-35 Canadian 068.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	251.4 KB
ID:	259113  

Last edited by Mark Schneider; 07-29-2016 at 10:57:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mark Schneider For This Post:
  #59  
Old 07-29-2016, 10:11:26 AM
Phil Johnson's Avatar
Phil Johnson Phil Johnson is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tofield, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,054
Thanks: 6,037
Thanked 3,676 Times in 1,153 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Mark, when you have the manifold ready for resurfacing, you could try Tony's "manifold surfing technique" !!

That old TC has sure gone to the right guy now! I'm glad to see it under repair and will follow this thread with great interest.
__________________
It'll be done in good time---impossible might take a little longer!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Phil Johnson For This Post:
  #60  
Old 07-29-2016, 05:05:06 PM
J Ware J Ware is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Morrice, Michigan
Posts: 590
Thanks: 309
Thanked 915 Times in 332 Posts
Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Mark, you may think about what I am going to do to repair the fenders on my 21-32 that have stress cracks also. I got a piece of I think 16 ga.x 4 in. wide that I'm going rivet on the bottom dside of the fenders. I want to save my fenders and this was the easiest way I could come up with and would also look like it was done yrs. ago. Jim
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to J Ware For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Rumely 36 HP " Canadian model " restoration nearly complete. George Hoffman Steam Stationary Engines, Traction Engines 62 08-21-2017 10:47:26 PM
"Twin City 25-45" Model Build Completed Culy Scale Model Engineering 37 12-30-2012 04:11:39 PM
MONARCH by "Canadian Engines", Dunnville, Ontario. Denis Rouleau Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 22 09-06-2010 07:29:15 PM
Canadian ..... "Page" Engine Owen Bosma Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 8 08-30-2010 11:13:49 PM
Head lines in "The Derrick" Oil City's local newspaper Bruce Golden Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 1 08-19-2009 07:56:25 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:02:29 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277