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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"


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  #61  
Old 07-29-2016, 10:53:48 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

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Originally Posted by Oilpulled View Post
Are those cracks in the header or just cracks in rust from the casting? We have a leaky radiator on a 20-35 also.
The photo is taken of the top header plate. The dark lines you see are all fractures and the header was bad on both sides on the top.

I contacted General Radiator on their website and they contacted me by phone in less than an hour! I was sent the radiator measuring diagram via email and I've filled it out and sent it back along with some pictures. I'll let you know how things progress.
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  #62  
Old 07-29-2016, 11:24:39 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

JWare that's how both my fenders are repaired old farmer style. Mark if you find a suitable valve spring replacement let me know. Mr Simons fixed me up with beautiful valves for my heads. Were not cheap but look great in the box
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  #63  
Old 08-01-2016, 11:52:06 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

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Originally Posted by ajs2744TC View Post
JWare that's how both my fenders are repaired old farmer style. Mark if you find a suitable valve spring replacement let me know.
Check with Eric Best as I think he had some wound in the past...not sure if he carries any inventory though.

Since a lot of the part numbers on the engine I have don't show up in the 1924 20-35 parts book I decided to invest in some later 27-44 manuals to see what I could find out. Print date on the brown one is 3-29 while the supplement is 3-30.

This engine has the pressure fed rocker arm shafts under the valve covers. Pressurized valve gear oiling was std. equipment starting with engine number 200746 but was retro fitted to earlier models as a field change improvement.
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  #64  
Old 08-02-2016, 11:26:54 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

The hotspot intake manifold and related heat riser plumbing is a real piece of cast iron artwork on the Twin Cam tractors. When I went to remove mine I thought if I snipped the heads off the long bolts in the middle that it would come apart a piece at a time. No way! The exhaust elbow, intake manifold, and crossover tube flanges were all firmly rusted on the shanks of those bolts. The next plan was to lift it off as an assembly but the crossover tube would not fit between the heads...rather annoying!

So the heads had to come off first. When I got the rocker arms removed I tapped on the valves and found there were 2 stickys and 1 stuck on the front head so was pretty fortunate in that area. I used the skid loader to pick the heads off. The cylinders showed surprisingly little wear on the top and only a small pitting area caused by the mice on #2.

If you have to deal with stuck pistons this is the ideal position to find them in as the crankshaft has maximum leverage in this position. The engines that stick close to TDC can be a real job. Note how full of crud the cooling system is. I put some diesel fuel on top of the pistons and let it sit overnight.
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  #65  
Old 08-04-2016, 12:00:17 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Good News! The next day I checked the engine and saw that three cylinders had drained into the pan so the motor really only had one stuck piston which was #2. That seemed pretty easy to deal with.

While I let the pistons soak I decided to look at the clutch assembly. The clutch would not engage with moderate pressure on the hand lever so I figured the throwout sleeve was probably stuck. After the removal of the gas tank and tank pedestal I found this to be true.

Since the clutch assembly had to come out and the radiator was already off I chose to slide the engine forward on the frame for its eventual removal. When it was slid ahead I utilized the exposed clutch pins as a pry point to put pressure on the crankshaft while hammering on the stuck piston in an effort to break the engine loose. It took about 10 minutes worth of teamwork with my son to get the crankshaft to rotate. I was surprised to see that the pistons come above the block deck at TDC.

While breaking loose the engine went rather smoothly the crankshaft turned over hard. It was difficult to turn it over using a 4.5 ft pry bar on the clutch pins and did not want to free up after multiple revolutions. At this point I chalked it up to rust getting behind the top rings. I was to learn later that this was not the case.
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  #66  
Old 08-04-2016, 10:52:25 AM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Nice to see progress on the ol' girl! When I looked into the bores, it looked to me too that only number 2 was stuck. I'm anxious to see what is making it hard to turn!!
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  #67  
Old 08-04-2016, 11:34:16 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Once I had the engine broke loose I then made provisions to move the motor into the shop. I fabricated a large bracket for my rotating Owatonna engine stand to hold the Twin City motor. We pulled the engine out of the tractor frame with skid loader, removed the hernia causing flywheel, and then mounted it on the stand. The bracket dimensions came out good and I was able rotate the engine shortblock 360 degrees which proved very useful for disassembly.

The next thing I did was to take the little 2 bolt cover off the top of the shift rails on the rear end. There is nothing quite like looking into a transmission that's full of 600wt cylinder oil and what I saw didn't look good. Both the gears on the primary bevel gear set were badly worn. The driven gear on the pulley shaft looked like it had chunks of the teeth missing.

More disassembly needed!
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:44:00 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Mark very sad about these broken teeths.

Hope you are able to find an second and better one.
Then it is only some work.

Keep us up to date,

Chris
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Old 08-05-2016, 04:24:20 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Never an easy restoration on these big girls. They were designed to be used hard and were! Also a testimonial as to the power of that engine, weak ones don't pull out the gear teeth! But when you get it back in shape it'll be worth it.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:24:26 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Re post 64 and crossover pipe. Someone I know wanted to use that crossover pipe and couldn't get the heads off easily and so just beat on a head enough to break the interfering part off. That tractor was to be sold to someone else anyway.
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Old 08-06-2016, 11:42:16 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Oilpulled...It would be hard to imagine that any time would be saved by going that route. There are 4 core plugs per head and the "offending" piece would be the protrusion on the head casting where these are installed. It looks like it would take some dedicated chiseling to remove them.

The new radiator core is here. I considered it a very fast delivery as seeing it was a custom built core. It is not exactly like the original (nor did I expect it to be). I took some comparison pictures for the benefits of others that may be contemplating a similar move. Cost for the core, bolt kit, and tank seals came to 475.00 plus shipping.
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Old 08-06-2016, 12:51:36 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Did you get gaskets also? I had to get my square headed bolts from a supplier in Oregon.
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Old 08-06-2016, 02:01:20 PM
Jeff Blaney Jeff Blaney is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Regarding the Twin City line in general, did they have an extensive dealership network in western Canada? Here in Ontario (after 1929 or so) any MM or MM/Twin City product was imported and sold through Waterloo Mfg. Was it the same out west? What about the early years, say for a Twin City tractor of this vintage?
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  #74  
Old 08-06-2016, 02:20:21 PM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Gary...My radiator had already been changed to hex head bolts and that's what will be used for assembly. The bolt kit supplied is from the same stock that's used on truck radiator recore jobs. The tank seals are a roll of self adhesive gasket strapping which is overlapped on the corners and the holes are punched during reassembly with a Phillips screwdriver. I've used this stuff before on heavy truck radiator repair.

My recently purchased parts books have been a real asset to me. The tractor has turned out to be quite a menagerie of parts from both ends of the Big Twin Cam manufacturing spectrum. The majority of the engine parts are late model 27-44 stock. The air filter assembly on this one is AE267C and was only available on tractors 250726 and after. The belt pulley is AT 94 and is the same light duty 2 bolt hub style that was used on the prototypes. I'll share more detail on these subjects later.
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Old 08-06-2016, 03:47:18 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Gary, my local bolt supplier has always been able to supply me any square headed bolts and heavy nuts that I need. Anything from 1/4 " to 3/4 ". Edmonton Nut and Bolt is the company. 780 465-1466.
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Old 08-07-2016, 10:52:24 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

With the engine out of the way the next step was to remove the stuck clutch assembly and get a better look at those gears. Removing the throw out fork from the rusty cross shaft was a bit of a tussle. Once out of the way the clutch/input shaft assembly was easily removed by taking out the 4 cap screws that hold the bearing quill on the rear housing. Initial inspection of the bevel gears showed deep grooves worn on the driving faces of the clutch shaft gear while the bevel gear on the pulley shaft had most of 3 teeth gone.

A comment here about the Twin Cam transmissions. While these rugged 2 speed transmissions were quite a bit ahead of their time when open drive gears ruled the day they had one drawback. The gear set was self oiling when driving the tractor but not when it was used for belt pulley work. Lubrication for the primary bevel gears and transmission shaft in this mode was to be applied externally by the operator via a drip oiler on the top of the transmission cover and grease cups on the ends of the shaft. As you can see on this tractor the oiler has been replaced with a large bolt leaving one to wonder how long it had been run in this condition.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:05:20 AM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Blaney View Post
Regarding the Twin City line in general, did they have an extensive dealership network in western Canada? Here in Ontario (after 1929 or so) any MM or MM/Twin City product was imported and sold through Waterloo Mfg. Was it the same out west? What about the early years, say for a Twin City tractor of this vintage?
Jeff...Here are three scans from the parts books that I have which lists the Branch Houses for Minneapolis Steel & Machinery in Canada.

1. 1924 20-35 parts manual.
2. 1929 pre-merger 27-44 parts manual
3. 1930 Minneapolis Moline post-merger 27-44 parts manual supplement. Note not all the Canadian distributors survived the merger.
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Old 08-10-2016, 12:00:35 AM
Mark Schneider Mark Schneider is offline
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

Well no doubt about it the bevel gear that drives the pulley shaft had to come out. I was a little apprehensive about this job because of the experience with my 17-28 transmission. It has a similar tranny layout and I had tried to remove this same gear with no luck whatsoever. That one while not perfect was still serviceable so I left it. The one in the 20-35 is shot so it had to come out no matter what.

The era correct operators manual covers the removal of this gear but there has not been a lot of success stories using it here on the Stak...rather the opposite has been true. But for the lack of better direction I decided to follow it and see where it lead. In a nutshell the instructions were to remove the transmission cover and extract the reverse gear cluster. The pulley shaft bearing quill covers get removed next and the bevel gear is drifted off to the right while the shaft is removed to the left. Sounded simple enough except no one has been able to get this gear to move along the pulley shaft on a 17-28 myself included.

Since the pulley shaft is removed from the left side of the case the first order of business after draining 20 gallons of 600wt (a real treat!) was to remove the wheel on that side as the rim was smack dab in the way. A quick look at the wheel hub revealed petrified splines so I removed the 4 bolts on the bearing cover and used the skid loader to remove the wheel with the axle attached. Removal of the transmission cover showed a gearset that looked to be good condition with the exception the primary bevel gears.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:23:07 PM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

The next step was to remove the reverse cluster gear. The long set screw that retains the shaft was removed and a slide hammer/vise grips combo was used to pull the the reverse shaft out. I went far enough to lift the reverse gears out and then slid the shaft back in the case. It is not removable as it hits the wheel rim on the right side. So far so good!
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Old 08-13-2016, 12:15:30 AM
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Default Re: Twin City 20-35 "Canadian"

The next item of business was the belt pulley removal. This pulley (AT94) was also used on the prototypes and I'll put together a post or two for the "Twin City 20-35 Prototype?" thread about some of the details later. The bearing quill behind the pulley was removed so the shaft could be moved to the left. The transmission was shifted into high gear which supported the left side of the shaft. Now according to the operators manual it was hammering time....

I trimmed the end off of a 3/4 ton Chevy torsion bar for a drift punch and gave the bevel gear about 8 good whacks...nothing gave any indication of moving or that it would ever move. Just like the 17-28! I got this feeling that if I got after it I would probably drive the pulley shaft through the cast iron bearing cover on the right side and I didn't want to add more to my growing needed parts list.

So not wanting to ignorantly destroy usable parts I left it sit while I thought over other disassembly possibilities.
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