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Fire Truck Engine Needed


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  #1  
Old 03-17-2019, 02:47:52 PM
Hubbie Hubbie is offline
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Default Fire Truck Engine Needed

I'm looking at doing a repower on my fire truck. I would like to stay gas. The question of the hour is what engine would be best? The current engine is an I6 and is 529 cubic inch. Thanks to all, Mike
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Old 03-18-2019, 07:22:08 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Engine needed

wow! 529 CID I6! got any specs on your current engine like how many HP and FT LB torque @ what rpm? this will all help you decide what will be best. another question also, why do you want to re-power? parts hard to find/ expensive? or is it under powered? I would love to see some pictures of you current engine, i bet its a brute of a engine.

---------- Post added at 07:19:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26:03 AM ----------

did a little digging around on the net, that wouldn't happen to be the Hercules rxc engine would it? if so, that may be a tall order to fill with a gas engine. HP not the issue, that engine makes an ungodly amount of torque @ a low rpm.

---------- Post added at 07:22:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19:01 AM ----------

went back and double checked, 396 ft lb torque @ 1000 rpm.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:52:08 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Engine needed

What is the truck manufacturer? American La-France had a 527 CID V-12, with different HP ratings depending on application. from 170 to 215 HP. I don't know of a 16 cylinder fire truck. You can view my ALF Junior V-12 on Youtube
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:38:06 PM
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Default Re: Engine needed

Engine is a continental at 75 hp( calculated). Don't know the torque. The reason to repower is cost, about 10k to rebuild the continental. Model 15h. Mike
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:06:50 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
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Default Re: Engine needed

You might come after it from a different direction; what transmision does the truck have and what adapters are availible for it?
Myself I'd look into a 454 big block Chevy.
Doc
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:00:51 AM
Tracy T Tracy T is offline
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Default Re: Engine needed

i was going to suggest the big block chevy as well, horse power and torque is there but at a much higher rpm. you could go all the way up to 572 cid with the bbc.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:14:29 AM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Engine needed

Hello, I would take a serious look at one of the more common small series American-LaFrance v-12's. Similar CID, old style, should fit in the space available in your rig, to suit your early truck. This, refit, is certainly something that could/would have been done early on to prolong the life of a tired piece of fire equipment. Torque and HP would be developed at a higher RPM, but I don't see that as a problem in your case. This is my 2 cents...
Al
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:08:12 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
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Default Re: Engine needed

When the Alfon site was up, there wasa guy in NY that had a 1953 American La-France 700 series truck. He installed a Ford 427 with a C-3 trans! The 460 would have worked too, but he didn't know if the rear would take the HP and torque.

The ALF Junior V-12 is a work horse. It is also a low RPM engine - governed to around 3800 RPM with the Zenith model 99 carbs You could tweak them to 4200 but asked for bearing failure if you kept it there for long. The ALF V-12s were made for a long time, from the mid 20s until the late '60s.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:20:53 PM
cornbinder89 cornbinder89 is offline
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

A 501 IHC Red Diamond might do the trick, parts are still around for them.
I have A Buda 525 that is a nice engine as well, but parts are hard to come by.
1st look at operating speed and torque of what you have now, it will help rule out engines that don't have the same power band.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:41:32 PM
Vanman Vanman is offline
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

Crown used to put 779 and 1091 ci Hall-Scotts in their fire trucks, but they made smaller ones too. One of my buses originally had a 590 Hall-Scott, and I think there was even a 504. I think it would be a travesty to put some V8 in it. Original is king, and period correct is second best.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:50:16 PM
Alan D. Alan D. is offline
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

I am in agreement, find a period correct engine that could have been used in this type of rig and, as others have said, modern V-8 only if that is the direction you want to go. (last choice in my book).
Al
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:07:43 AM
keith1944 keith1944 is offline
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

Most of the early builders manufactured their own engines into the '40's and adopted others when the discontinued their own line. ALF, Seagrave and Mack all come to mind. They all used the big Hall-Scotts after they discontinued manufacturing their own. Also installed Hercules, Continental and other if you speced them. 1091 Hall-Scott is my all-time favorite gasser. A true beast!
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:25:00 AM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

The owner of this fire truck said that it would cost 10K to rebuild the continental engine. You cannot rebuild a Hall-Scott for 10K, no parts are available, everything needed would have to be custom made. My vote is for a big Waukesha like the 544 cubic inch model 140GK. A friend of mine has one in his 1958 FWD fire truck and it sounds like an EMD pulling south mountain in PA. Waukesha built fantastic engines. Certain models have fairly decent parts availability if you sniff around enough.

Chris
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:02:35 AM
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

If you are not looking for period correct, a 300ci Ford 6 cyl is as rugged as they come. Going to be 140hp or so. A 12 valve Cummins, 5.9 ltr, mechanically pumped injection. 160hp, slow turner producing good power at 1600-1800 rpm and I believe 450 torque
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Old 03-20-2019, 05:53:58 AM
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

Thanks for all the response. I will be using a period correct engine. Also plan to stay with gas. I'm definitely not going to use a vee engine. It just wouldn't look correct.
Some of you are asking for hp and torque specs. I haven't been able to find and specs on my engine. Old continental info,parts, and specs are not available. I was able to find a copy of a manual to do an overhaul. I was able to calculate the hp from some info I found, but haven't been able to calculate the torque. Please keep the post coming. Thanks mike
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Old 03-20-2019, 09:45:50 AM
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

The Army used a big six cylinder gas engine in the duce and halves before they went to the diesel engine. I am not sure if they were Continental, Waukesha, or Hercules.
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Old 03-20-2019, 02:48:42 PM
Bud Tierney Bud Tierney is offline
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

You might wish to give the Brockway Club a call...
The engine series seems to go 14H/HA, 15H, 16H, 28H and Power Unit P96...
(Cont'l power units are free standing power units made from various engines; in this case my catalogs don't state which is in this power unit)...
14H/HA, 15H, 28H and P96 are all 41/2; 16H is 43/4...
There's an oddity re' the 16H...
A 1930 McCord gasket catalog lists 14HA, 15H, 16H "Bus Type" using ONE head gasket...
A 41 McCord gasket catalog shows only the 16H and 36B using TWO head gaskets; nor do the other listed gaskets match....BUT the 36B is a Brockway-Cont'l number...(Brockway Cont'l are sometimes tweaked Cont'ls, Brockway using their own engine ID designations)...
A 36 engine parts catalogs lists some Brockways with the 16H and some with the 36B (both are 43/4)...
Should be worth a call to see if they have an engine, or leads, if they're compatible...
The 16H does seem to've gotten into more makes than the others (found nothing on 28H)...
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Old 03-20-2019, 11:15:20 PM
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

GMC built a 503 CI truck gasoline engine. Built from the late 40's to about 1959.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:22:15 PM
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

Not knowing how the truck is configured, the best suggestion I can make for an older re-power is a Continental R6602, plenty of which exist due to their use in 5 ton military trucks from the '50s to the '80s. Displacement @ 602 cid, 224 or so hp @ 2800 rpm with loads of torque at 1000 to 1600 rpm. Standard SAE bell housing too. Drags our 5 ton water truck with 4000 gallons of water around OK, just have plenty of fuel available.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:20:23 PM
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Default Re: Fire Truck Engine Needed

I've looked at the r6602, but unsure if the starter would be in the way of the steering box. I've been looking for the dimensions on lone without any luck so far
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