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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Kinnard-Haines Flour City


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  #41  
Old 04-13-2013, 12:43:04 PM
NDmeterman NDmeterman is offline
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

I'm curious as to the background of the two Flour City tractors at Crosby - particularly the years they were in active use...

From the book "Mondakonians: Energizers of the Prairie" (history book covering Montana-Dakota Utilities which incidentally is the power company serving Crosby today), pages 64-65:

"...On the other end of the [Kenmare] division, the Crosby Auto Co. brought electric power to Crosby in 1913. The generating plant serving the city was served by a 40-80 [sic] Flour City Tractor powering a 5-kW generator, which furnished alternating current to Crosby residents. A 30-kW generator was installed in 1916, still run by a gasoline engine, but just as in Kenmare, the Crosby plant was destroyed by fire in the spring of 1918. Arthur Kately and Knute Huso, the two entrepreneurs who furnished electricity to Crosby, rebuilt the plant and extended highline service to Ambrose at about the same time..."

(from there, Crosby became the headquarters of the short-lived United Power Co., extending power east towards Flaxton and north to North Portal, SK. United Power was purchased by what was then known as the Montana-Dakota Power Co. in 1926)
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  #42  
Old 04-13-2013, 05:05:47 PM
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Photo Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Thank you all for your input, thoughts, comments, pictures and scans. She'll get the attention she needs and well deserves. Her parts may be numbered in the order they were assembled. We do not know how old she is yet but it appears that her Serial number may be "3".

Jeff,
We've got that grid but I failed to think about it when we were in the shop. We'll measure and try to get you an answer. We did not have that commemorative NZ stamp though so we appreciate your time to put that up. To partially answer your question from yesterday, the wood trim on the radiator, even what you cannot see unless you are standing inside the frame, appears to be the same age as the operators platform and toolbox. We don't like to assume but it could be possible the radiator is original. Ed will speak up at some point, you can be sure of that.

David,
I laminated that pic awhile ago and look at it every day, wishing it was in color!

Here are a few pics from today. There are 200+ more to go with them, along with videos too. More later..
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  #43  
Old 04-13-2013, 05:28:26 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Quote:
Originally Posted by retrofit88 View Post
.... We do not know how old she is yet but it appears that her Serial number may be "3" ....
WOW !

Not likely to find a lower number out there...... on Anything.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:04:45 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Nikki: 3rd picture, post 42.
The brass throttle control to the upper right of the cylinder: Do you know if that is an original part? Reason I ask is I have a NOS one just like it that has been on my shelf for years. Mine is marked "PAT OT 14, 1902. I've never been able to ID what it came from.
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  #45  
Old 04-13-2013, 09:31:51 PM
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Photo Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Date on this one is the same. At least something is consistent, we don't know if it is original either.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:17:25 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Post #42, the third picture. What is the tank affair that sits right under the head? Looks a bit like an ox yoke. Muffler? Oil tank?
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  #47  
Old 04-13-2013, 11:22:48 PM
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Photo Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Had to go look at her again. Muffler, RH Drive Pinion Bearing Block, Drawbar Spring.
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  #48  
Old 04-14-2013, 12:28:13 AM
TSeaberg TSeaberg is offline
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Here is a link to an original image of one of these early flour city tractors at the Minnesota State Fair. It claims it was 1903, but who knows.

http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/disp...dex=1&count=25

http://collections.mnhs.org/cms/disp...te%20fair&year
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:18:22 AM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Awesome job guys, so glad that it is getting restored.

Anyone know if the tractor is throttle governed or hit and miss?

Tony B.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:52:51 AM
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Photo Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Hit and miss
10-1/4 x 15-inch bore & stroke

That part on the carburetor is not original.
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  #51  
Old 04-14-2013, 01:07:22 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Sorry i know Nikki wanted me to jump in on this sooner, First as Nikki said its 10.250 bore X 15" stroke...if we go by the rear wheel size and belt pulley size its a 12hp...big bore and stroke for a 12hp but then again we have to remember how early it is..Rear wheels 58" in dia, flywheels 64" in dia. Yes its serial number 3 not 103 or 1203 like some companies started with. The casting numbers on all parts start with T,
T1 (my guess tractor part 1)the cylinder, T2 on the head and go up to about T132. Bruce, yes under the head is the most elaborate muffler I have ever seen on a tractor, it exits out each side through small slits and into the rear wheels. As far are what left of a carburetor, it looks at one time someone tried to make it Th. Gov. this is not factory as the butterfly was never hooked up to any kind of gov. and must have been worked by hand. They put a home made lever to lockout the hit and miss gov.or by moving the lever reengage the hit and miss, all the original hit and miss parts along with the original mixer (carb) are still on the tractor and it will be put back to original hit and miss. The screen cooler is original, when I first went to look at the tractor in WA. I didn't give it much thought because I never saw a photo with that type of cooler, however after getting it to Dudley's and looking it over, there is no question it is original. So we all can speculate about that, and please feel free to make suggestions we are all learning. The tractor is in amazing condition for something that was made in 1897 ? It shows little ware, its made very well and if the mice didn't make a home in the cylinder it would be in running condition. There are three clutches one to disengage the drive chain for long runs of belt work, one on the top shaft for the drive and one on the belt pulley. All grease cups are cast with a date of 1896...hope this helps with some of the question, but feel free to ask away...Ed
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:52:12 PM
TSeaberg TSeaberg is offline
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Here is a link to the patent for the march 1896 grease cup. I don't think this would be a great way to date the tractor as the date is a patent date not casting date, but interesting anyway.

I could not find any patents tractor related to either Kinnard or Haines. a couple things for balers.

http://www.google.com/patents/US5567...201896&f=false
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  #53  
Old 04-14-2013, 02:04:02 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Ed,

Thanks for the info! I think that bore and stroke is only second to the Fairbanks 15-25 (10.5x18) for largest surviving single cylinder tractor.

Where did you look/find serial #3 on the tractor? We have not been able to find a serial number on our Flour City engine.

I have a hard time believing it is serial #3 if the screen cooling tank is original. To my knowledge, screen cooling tanks were not used on engines/tractors until 1905-08 timeframe. Even the earliest IHC engines and tractors from this timeframe were tray cooled. I've had my fair share of literature and have not seen screen cooling tanks on any of the earliest engines. Plus if they had a screen cooling tank on tractor #3, why do all of the earliest ads/photos show the big tank? Seems like they would have stuck with the screen tank. Perhaps the tank was an early professional replacement in the 1905-1910 timeframe and thus it looks original?

Thanks again for sharing!
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:14:01 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Ed, Thanks for the information on the tractor. The gears on the tractor looks exceptionally good at least what I could see from the pictures. There maybe is a rumor/truth ( ? ) ( the story Craig mentioned earlier in the thread ) that this tractor was crossing a railroad tracks and because of how low the flywheels hung low it got hung up on the tracks. There is suppose to be a gouge or something like that on one of the flywheels. Any truth to that ? If so, I think that's a neat part of the history ( story ) that goes along with that tractor, to leave that gouge there. ( My opinion only ) I'm glad to see that tractor is finally getting a well deserved restoration instead of setting in a field. Kinda sounds like the " Simplot " collection mayham. But with a lot better ending. Is the tractor going to be painted ? I hope not ( my opinion only again. ) Thanks again and looking forward to following the restoration process.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:21:52 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

The railroad track thing is something I heard from some guy in Kansas....... .......it would be pretty cool if one of those flywheels showed marks.......
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:37:41 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Johnson View Post
Nikki: 3rd picture, post 42.
The brass throttle control to the upper right of the cylinder: Do you know if that is an original part? Reason I ask is I have a NOS one just like it that has been on my shelf for years. Mine is marked "PAT OT 14, 1902. I've never been able to ID what it came from.
Phil,

that is the standard inlet throttle plate for the Schebler Model D carb. Made by the thousands, and used on hundreds of engines.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:29:00 PM
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Photo Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Grease cup with patent discussed above, Head, Example of Ed's precision, Ed
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:41:26 PM
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Photo Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Thanks button is gone again so we'll thank you all again with some more pics:

Wood blocking behind radiator, Differential, Piston

Overspray on those wood blocks is consistent with the overspray on the gas tank and frame. It doesn't mean they didn't reuse the wood blocks if they did modify the radiator, however, it does not rule out original radiator either.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:54:25 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Jeff I agree about the screen cooler and it looks to short for the tractor, untill you look at some early photos. Some of the tanks are short with a tool box in front of the tank and then the tank was made larger all the way to the front of the frame on later pics. ..It has paint under it, matching paint on the bottom of the cylinder, but I'm sure it could of been painted to match the original if it was installed later.. so IDK?..As far as the ser. number.....3 is stamped (not cast) on the end of the crank, on the both rod caps (like a otto) and on a few of the shafts and parts. Craig/Don...JT told me the same story about the RR...I looked close, but no marks on the face of the flywheel...OK so here is another..it has two spark plugs... one where the stationary igniter was and one where the movable ingter was...My gut is telling me they took out the igniter and replaced it with spark plugs, and if they did it was very eary in the tractors history...However there are two distinct and separate timers, one in the cam tower where the original igniter push rod came out ( and not used anymore)...it has a wood insolater and non adjustable , the wood looks as old as all the other original wood on the tractor and then a second (and homemade) timer on the end of the cam, thats adjustable from the platform. Mounted in the tool box is a double knife switch. For controling two buzz coils for two plugs? Wouldn't think this had plugs from factory but? Would be a easy fix to convert it back to igniter..

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Old 04-14-2013, 03:57:17 PM
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Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Thanks, Bill. Nice to finally find out what it belongs to. It's NOS and has been sitting on my shelves for about 15 years. The lever has never been drilled out for any linkage- just the casting dimple.

Nikki, It's going to be exciting to watch this project come together!
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