Antique Tractors
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Old Iron and Tractor Community > Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats Photos and information about antique steel wheeled farm tractors. This is where to find the heaviest of Old Iron tractors.

Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

Kinnard-Haines Flour City


this thread has 205 replies and has been viewed 58114 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 04-14-2013, 04:17:40 PM
Ed Dina's Avatar
Ed Dina Ed Dina is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlboro, New York USA
Posts: 107
Thanks: 28
Thanked 242 Times in 35 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Don..Not sure if Dudley has made his mind up yet about paint or original...If anyone knows the bore and stroke of the 16hp engine thats out there, would like to know....I still feel this tractor might be a 16hp with that bore and stroke..As far as the number stamped on the end of the cylinder (as seen in Nikki's photos) 5.8.1. ? help
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Ed Dina For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #62  
Old 04-14-2013, 04:39:38 PM
Bruce Flatmoe Bruce Flatmoe is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Burnsville, Minnesota USA
Posts: 262
Thanks: 1,303
Thanked 1,868 Times in 143 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Date of mfg????? May 8, 1901??? Just an idea.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bruce Flatmoe For This Post:
  #63  
Old 04-14-2013, 04:52:11 PM
Brian Flatmoe Brian Flatmoe is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Meadow, S. Dakota USA
Posts: 363
Thanks: 1,778
Thanked 1,238 Times in 189 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Has the differential been repaired? Looks like a patch on the inside? Exciting to see this tractor getting some attention.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Brian Flatmoe For This Post:
  #64  
Old 04-14-2013, 05:48:22 PM
Craig A's Avatar
Craig A Craig A is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 15,478
Thanks: 16,785
Thanked 20,666 Times in 5,984 Posts
Talking Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Dina View Post
Don..Not sure if Dudley has made his mind up yet about paint or original....
Just so you know where Don is coming from....... .......THIS is paint.......

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	muriatic-acid.jpg
Views:	1166
Size:	38.7 KB
ID:	162866  
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Craig A For This Post:
  #65  
Old 04-14-2013, 06:27:33 PM
Ed Dina's Avatar
Ed Dina Ed Dina is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlboro, New York USA
Posts: 107
Thanks: 28
Thanked 242 Times in 35 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Great Idea Bruce!!!! Bruce gets moved to #1 Flour City Guy.. tied with Jeff.....Craig...way to funny...and Craig gets moved to #1 BB..Just had a great phone call from Benjamin..sent me pics of Jerrys engine...bore looks close to this, so thinking 16hp, and not 12hp as catalogs show for wheel size...so i see #2 stamped on jerry's rod and cap...so maybe I'm way wrong on ser #3...but its still stamped on the crank and parts so then again?, maybe employee #3? or the winning lottery number for Minneapolis...Good eyes Bruce..yes it was repaired on the brake drum, they even filled in the cracks with babbitt...They had the diff. out at one time and that brake drum needs to come off, before you can lift out the diff. and shaft, it hits the bracket (gee how do I know this)...my guess is they tried to pull it up, it got hung up on the bracket and they broke it....
Reply With Quote
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Ed Dina For This Post:
  #66  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:04:21 PM
Jeff Wahl's Avatar
Jeff Wahl Jeff Wahl is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 1,295
Thanks: 4,150
Thanked 10,051 Times in 972 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Ed,

The tractor in the photo below looks pretty close in size to the one you're working on. The cooling tank definately takes up the length of the frame with the tool box mounted out front like on their engines, but doesn't appear to in the New Zealand tractor photo. It would be neat to see a big tank put on the tractor, but the screen tank is equally neat.

Now how is my Flour City stock looking???

__________________
-Jeff

wahlengines.com
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:21:51 PM
TSeaberg TSeaberg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Moorhead, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 428
Thanks: 442
Thanked 2,744 Times in 281 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Now I may be way off here but it looks possible to me that the radiator started out as the one shown in the original photo's.
The top of the radiator existing is not galvanized like the rest of it and just does not really match up. To me it looks like the galvanized part ends approximately where the original radiator would have ended. So could it be as simple as they just cut the sides at an angle and added to the top to create this radiator left on there?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TSeaberg For This Post:
  #68  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:31:46 PM
Ed Dina's Avatar
Ed Dina Ed Dina is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlboro, New York USA
Posts: 107
Thanks: 28
Thanked 242 Times in 35 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Jeff..I like the tank also...So much for my idea about "T" in the casting numbers standing for tractor..Jerry's engine has T also...So how about T standing for 16hp?...I think when your Dad and I spoke your 9hp had a different letter for all the casting numbers....Also look at the photo you just posted, just to the right of the flywheel ..notice all gears that are not on Dudley's tractor. 2 speed maybe and also maybe a 2 cylinder? The whole transmission assy and shifting lever are very different from Dudley's.....JOHN..I know your not much for posting...but I know we all would like to hear first hand the history of the WA. tractor as you know it...Thanks...Another good idea about the cooler
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ed Dina For This Post:
  #69  
Old 04-14-2013, 09:37:50 PM
Jeff Wahl's Avatar
Jeff Wahl Jeff Wahl is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Fairfax, Virginia
Posts: 1,295
Thanks: 4,150
Thanked 10,051 Times in 972 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Tom, great eye! I think you've nailed it on the head. Also if you look at vertical water pipe, it looks like they added a short extension peice so that it would reach the new height once the metal triangles were added onto the original ends. So that explains why it looks like an original tank with original paint underneath and yet the metal triangles don't match the original galvanized tank.

So if it was originally a square tank tractor, then Bruce's theory that those numbers mean May 8, 1901 seems much more logical! Would that then make this the oldest surviving tractor in the US?

Our Flour City engine has a chain driven water pump, unfortunately I don't have good photos of it, but you can kind of see it in the video I have on youtube:



All others Flour City engines that I have photos of have the piston water pump. I wonder which came first?
__________________
-Jeff

wahlengines.com
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Jeff Wahl For This Post:
  #70  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:00:10 PM
Bruce Flatmoe Bruce Flatmoe is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Burnsville, Minnesota USA
Posts: 262
Thanks: 1,303
Thanked 1,868 Times in 143 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

A question for you in regards to the cooling tank. The two rows of rivets around the tank should be riveted to angle irons around the inside. To the angle irons were attached galvanized strips of metal, side to side and front to back and woven like a screen. There would have been two levels then of these woven flat strips. Seems like the strips were 1.5" to 2" wide. Does your tank still have the support strips in it?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bruce Flatmoe For This Post:
  #71  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:07:35 PM
Tom Wahl Tom Wahl is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Fairfax Station, VA
Posts: 749
Thanks: 2,676
Thanked 1,031 Times in 279 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Take a look at the photo Jeff posted in #66. Any ideas as to what that small platform in front of the gas tank might have been used for? Best I can tell the platform also appears in one of the early Minnesota State Fair photos posted earlier.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom Wahl For This Post:
  #72  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:10:14 PM
Benjamin Roth's Avatar
Benjamin Roth Benjamin Roth is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Elgin, North Dakota USA
Posts: 175
Thanks: 254
Thanked 897 Times in 88 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Jeff, thank you so much for that picture! That is indeed the two cylinder. You can tell by the design of the front axle and, like Ed said, the forward/reverse gears.

That platform is their version of tray cooling I believe.

Last edited by Benjamin Roth; 04-14-2013 at 10:15:11 PM. Reason: Add comment
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Benjamin Roth For This Post:
  #73  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:14:49 PM
Ed Dina's Avatar
Ed Dina Ed Dina is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Marlboro, New York USA
Posts: 107
Thanks: 28
Thanked 242 Times in 35 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Nikki...When you get time ..can you take a photo of the inside of the cooler for Bruce...Thanks

Found this on Wikipedia...history might have to be changed...

Late historian R.B. Gray pegs the first tractor built as the Charter Gas Engine made in 1889. But no example of the Charter tractor--or even subsequent tractor models built by the likes of Deering, McCormick, John Froelich, or Case up to 1903--still exists.

The challenge comes because both the British-made Ivel (shown above) and a Hart-Parr Model 18-30 (residing at the Smithsonian Institute) were made in 1903. Therefore, both qualify as the oldest tractor in existence. Unfortunately, the exact manufacturing date of both tractors is unknown
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ed Dina For This Post:
  #74  
Old 04-14-2013, 10:30:37 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 1,837
Thanks: 5,689
Thanked 3,785 Times in 981 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Ed, I just sent you an e-mail. Let me know if you got it.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 04-15-2013, 09:16:23 AM
Brian Flatmoe Brian Flatmoe is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Meadow, S. Dakota USA
Posts: 363
Thanks: 1,778
Thanked 1,238 Times in 189 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

I wonder if it would work to try wiping the radiator sides with a combination of linseed oil and paint thinner to see if it would bring out any original lettering that might remain?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Brian Flatmoe For This Post:
  #76  
Old 04-15-2013, 10:13:26 AM
Retrofit88's Avatar
Retrofit88 Retrofit88 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Roxbury, Connecticut
Posts: 239
Thanks: 504
Thanked 2,173 Times in 211 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

As you wish
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FC Radiator from RHS Looking Down.jpg
Views:	250
Size:	153.2 KB
ID:	162919   Click image for larger version

Name:	FC Radiator - Looking in from RHS.jpg
Views:	234
Size:	119.6 KB
ID:	162920   Click image for larger version

Name:	FC Radiator - Looking back.jpg
Views:	234
Size:	208.2 KB
ID:	162921   Click image for larger version

Name:	FC Radiator - top of screen.jpg
Views:	220
Size:	200.6 KB
ID:	162922  
Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Retrofit88 For This Post:
  #77  
Old 04-15-2013, 01:15:10 PM
FWurth's Avatar
FWurth FWurth is offline
One Millionth Post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Freeburg, Illinois, USA
Posts: 6,531
Thanks: 7,568
Thanked 6,051 Times in 3,103 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

I have to agree with TSeaberg on the cooler. It definately looks to be field modified, note the absence of any diagional bracing to the tower to keep it from shaking itself apart when running, also the crude forming of the screen at the top. This has to be the most interesting artifact to come back into the preservation movement in our lifetime and to have it in this forum is and know the people involved is way too cool! F.J.W.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to FWurth For This Post:
  #78  
Old 04-19-2013, 01:18:44 PM
Retrofit88's Avatar
Retrofit88 Retrofit88 is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Roxbury, Connecticut
Posts: 239
Thanks: 504
Thanked 2,173 Times in 211 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Here is a link to the video of the Flour City one-cylinder tractor coming off Tim Pabst's truck on Sunday, April 7, 2013.

http://youtu.be/AelQAIBRJo0

Last edited by Retrofit88; 04-19-2013 at 02:22:43 PM. Reason: Fixed a typo :D LOL
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 04-19-2013, 01:51:57 PM
Brasherman Brasherman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
Posts: 2,037
Thanks: 6,296
Thanked 1,280 Times in 912 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Thanks button gone, so thank you. Neat blacksmithed front ring setup there!
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Brasherman For This Post:
  #80  
Old 04-20-2013, 12:15:53 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cottage Grove, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 1,837
Thanks: 5,689
Thanked 3,785 Times in 981 Posts
Default Re: Kinnard-Haines Flour City

Quote:
Originally Posted by retrofit88 View Post
Hit and miss
10-1/4 x 15-inch bore & stroke

That part on the carburetor is not original.
I just got measurements off a 16 h.p. Flower City portable gas engine. The measurements are as follows

Bore: 11"
Stroke: 16 1/2 "
Flywheels dia. 60 1/4 "
Flywheelface: 4 "
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Don Selmer For This Post:
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Early Style Two-Cylinder Kinnard Haines Tractors Benjamin Roth Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 79 04-28-2019 12:22:29 AM
Kinnard Haines - Flour City Tractor Chris J Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 1 11-23-2010 10:48:11 PM
Kinnard - Haines Co. Engines Denis Rouleau Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 4 09-26-2009 06:08:39 AM
Flour City Tom Cwach Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 5 12-31-2006 11:04:22 AM
Flour City David Sundry Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats 0 01-10-2005 12:37:53 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:30:49 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277