Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Shop Equipment Tools and Techniques > Machine Shop and Tool Talk
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Machine Shop and Tool Talk Shop Equipment, fabrication, repairs, how to fix it, which tool to use for the job. Machinist shop talk, straight to the point.

Machine Shop and Tool Talk

How about some SERIOUS machining?


this thread has 24 replies and has been viewed 2976 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-22-2016, 11:00:04 PM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Beryl, Utah USA
Posts: 4,627
Thanks: 3,713
Thanked 4,909 Times in 2,053 Posts
Default How about some SERIOUS machining?

One of my favorite machining videos! Not often you get to see chips made by the bucket!
Doc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkOcK7KkDBQ
__________________
'The time has come', the Walrus said,'To talk of many things: Of shoes and ships and sealing-wax Of cabbages and kings'
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Thaumaturge For This Post:
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:36:33 AM
Tanner Remillard's Avatar
Tanner Remillard Tanner Remillard is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pendleton, Oregon
Posts: 3,044
Thanks: 2,491
Thanked 4,573 Times in 1,137 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

No offence, but that's not really serious metal removal.

My old German machining teacher told me years ago "You are not heavy machining until the chips sound like Volkswagen fenders hitting the floor"

Then there is always this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J150F5WoKE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDr1zT0YZcQ


This is a job I did a while ago, punched a 2 1/4" hole 4.700 deep in 316 stainless in about a minute. These are impressive drills, and it was only running about 50%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd9fCkztp0Q
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tanner Remillard For This Post:
  #3  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:56:40 AM
I like oldstuff I like oldstuff is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 6,262
Thanks: 1,601
Thanked 7,423 Times in 2,723 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Black boogers for days.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:39:58 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Beryl, Utah USA
Posts: 4,627
Thanks: 3,713
Thanked 4,909 Times in 2,053 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanner Remillard View Post
No offence, but that's not really serious metal removal.

My old German machining teacher told me years ago "You are not heavy machining until the chips sound like Volkswagen fenders hitting the floor"

Then there is always this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J150F5WoKE4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDr1zT0YZcQ


This is a job I did a while ago, punched a 2 1/4" hole 4.700 deep in 316 stainless in about a minute. These are impressive drills, and it was only running about 50%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd9fCkztp0Q
Brian is still building the shop to go around his BIG boring machine (HBM). Not many home shops with a 15 ton gantry crane... The metal mowing video is about as serious as I've ever seen. and I one night I watched my brother turn a six foot ring of two inch thick pure titanium at Eimco. Chips burned like an arc light.
Doc
__________________
'The time has come', the Walrus said,'To talk of many things: Of shoes and ships and sealing-wax Of cabbages and kings'
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Thaumaturge For This Post:
  #5  
Old 12-23-2016, 03:27:57 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 109
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Biggest I've seen was a milling machine (dual pallet) which could take the welded frames for BIG press brakes and machine two of them overnight (we were there in the 90s). The thing had something like 40 ft X by 15 ft Y by 20 ft (vertical) travel (the turret/cab/tool carousel rode on railroad rails in the X direction), and I think the spindle motor was rated at 150 hp (may have been more). When i was in that factory (receiving training on a brand of specialized press brake), they were machining a frame - each chip was at least as big as a pencil (but much thicker) and they had a safety barrier between the machine and the rest of the plant, made out of a composite that looked like layers of canvas, rubber, and maybe kevlar about half an inch thick. Each chip sounded like a gunshot when it hit the barrier - over a hundred feet (I've forgotten but it was quite a distance) away from the machine - they were being cut at, I'd guess, 8 feet up and hitting the barrier like bullets about 15 feet off the ground - and each impact would make the barrier jump like a curtain being tackled by a kitten. Each of the pallets was over 18 feet in diameter and could handle a 15 foot wide, 8 foot deep, 12 foot high press brake frame. (We're talking 4-6 inch or thicker steel).

It was fascinating to watch - the operator rode in a cab connected to the turret, and it had provisions for something like 60 different tools in the carousel. The cab and controls were all air-conditioned.

I wish I had a video of it today!

One of the local shops who was a regular customer had a horizontal CNC machining center capable of machining a piece 4 ft by 3 ft by 2-3 ft. It had a 50 hp spindle and they regularly took it close to the limits - I've seen steel shavings coming off like that many times (with flood coolant). It wasn't air conditioned, and I regularly had service calls to work on the spindle drive and the axis drives (heat and humidity are NOT friends of CNC machines).

(Laugh) that machine - when it was doing cast iron, you could taste it!

Anyway, thanks for putting up that video. Watching machine tools in operation is fascinating.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Archaeometrist For This Post:
  #6  
Old 12-23-2016, 06:20:24 PM
JoeCB JoeCB is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Posts: 610
Thanks: 103
Thanked 391 Times in 201 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Since we are on the subject of most favorite "chip makers" ... In terms of high volume production in the automotive world. As a young manufacturing engineer at the old and original (1921 - 1987) Cadillac Plant in Detroit I thought that the coolest machine on the engine block line was operation #10, the first machining operation on the rough castings (cast iron). This was the big 472 /500 cubic inch engine block. OP 10 was a huge horizontal ram broach that rough surfaced both cylinder head faces and tapper galley surface in one pass. On the return stroke the block got the oil pan face and bearing journal/bearing cap joints rough faced. The ram, as I remember was about 20 feet long and 4 feet wide, bristling with inserted carbide blades. The machine, made by Foote- Burt Co. was powered by huge DC motor direct coupled via rack and pinion to the broach ram... reverse direction at the end of each stroke. One swift stroke left to right and a block was finished top side, flipped over into the lower fixture and bottom faces were done on the return stroke... load another block about every 20 seconds. Cast iron chips raining down into the below floor chip conveyor system.

Joe B

Last edited by JoeCB; 12-23-2016 at 07:15:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to JoeCB For This Post:
  #7  
Old 12-23-2016, 08:13:17 PM
countryboy07 countryboy07 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cridersville, ohio
Posts: 163
Thanks: 2
Thanked 33 Times in 22 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

The shop I worked for had a few big Ingersoll bridge mills. 15 by 40 ft tables. Running a big shell mill with a high feed rate hoggin .6000 off in a pass. That would make the chips fly
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:05:15 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 109
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Along this line, I've seen a planer with a table that would take something like 6 ft by 16 ft, and pretty thick (at least a couple of feet of space between the frame and the table). It was taking off some pretty serious chips (big tight curls-almost balls) when I saw it (but not nearly as thick or as deep a pass as in the video). It was massive, and looked quite old.

You don't see those very often - I only saw the one in 15 years of business. In fact, I've seen many more shapers in shops than planers (I have a small Atlas shaper of my own).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-23-2016, 09:41:24 PM
beezerbill beezerbill is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 1,171
Thanks: 181
Thanked 627 Times in 422 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Wish I had some pictures from inside the Kingsbury Machine Tool Corporation, Keene, NH, when I was in there in about 1975 or so. They made rotary and in-line transfer machines for the Detroit auto makers, among other things. They had a vertical lathe that was about 3 floors tall; the operator followed the tool up and down in an enclosed cab elevator. You could just barely make out the overhead lights way up through all the oil smoke and cast iron dust. A friend operated a lathe there; the chips off of this beast must of weighed about a pound each.

At the other end of the scale was Central Screw (yes, that was really their name), also in Keene. They made screw fasteners for the auto industry. I recall they averaged about a million fasteners a day and their record was something like 6 million in a day. It was almost all done by forming and cold-heading but they did have some machines that cut slots into slotted head screws. I recall one machine slotting #4 round head screws and I bet it produced about 10 tablespoons of chips per day. Probably the entire plant put out enough chips in a day to fill a 5 gallon pail.

Central screw is long gone and Kingsbury is limping along (I think) but not in Keene. I really hate to see companies like these disappear but that is a subject for a different thread.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-23-2016, 10:22:23 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 109
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by akuna View Post
OK I bite. Blame it on the unions. I know a tannery that was employee owned. Also Union. They are out of business. Who do you blame, the greedy owners, or the employees? Oh, wait, they are the same person!

Why would you pay dues for someone to represent you when you are setting on the other side of the table? Talk about stupid.
I've seen the greedy, backhanded, vicious, LYING other side of the coin - business owners so damned greedy that they'd kill for a penny (if they could get away with it) and who didn't care that their GREED was destroying the health of their employees and the people living near their plant (which is now a superfund site) - yep, I worked there for several months as a kid. We've suffered at the hands of the "good business owners" enough, thank you (I have the scar to show for it - punched in the mouth by ANOTHER Good Christian business owner because I dared interrupt his non-business conversation about ANGELS to let him know he had a major breakdown on the floor shutting down production - at least he paid the doctor's bill).

Let's keep the damned politics out, please and keep reasonably on topic. My wife and I are terrified enough as it is living in this hellhole (long story but valid fear), and I don't want to be driven off of another website I appreciate because I wouldn't agree with the party line.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Archaeometrist For This Post:
  #11  
Old 12-24-2016, 08:54:29 AM
Reed Engine's Avatar
Reed Engine Reed Engine is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hominy, Oklahoma
Posts: 4,063
Thanks: 1,748
Thanked 4,493 Times in 1,745 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

When I first started I'd shoot chips across the room, they were like small HOT bullets. Then it dawned on me, I own the lathe and all I'm doing is tearing it up to save someone who doesn't care a few dollars. I slowed down and just don't charge as much.
__________________
Wake up and smell the Fool-Aid.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Reed Engine For This Post:
  #12  
Old 12-24-2016, 03:55:41 PM
s100 s100 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Posts: 822
Thanks: 201
Thanked 477 Times in 330 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Anymore today, "serious machining," removing vast amounts of stock to bring the part to size, is a thing of the past, or at least so far as the companies can make it so. Given the costs involved, for the raw stock and the machining time and consumables etc. it is cheaper to have the metal produced roughly to size instead of working with bar stock and slabs. This isn't universally true, but it is much more unusual today to see these types of operations.

As to the videos, the lathe is impressive, but the guy milling the green casting is a yawner. His feed rates are high, but then he appears to be using a cutter with many teeth, so he has to move to maintain chip load. And he is cutting cast iron, not some tough alloy steel. At one time I ran a Rockford 36" hydraulic shaper and I was able to take cuts of 1" depth in mild steel. On short cuts the chips looked like lock washers.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to s100 For This Post:
  #13  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:15:36 PM
tmg50 tmg50 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sturgis, Michigan, USA
Posts: 21
Thanks: 5
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

I always heard if shaper chips were not blue and smoking when they hit the floor you were not utilizing the machine to its full capacity.
steve
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-26-2016, 05:10:50 AM
Thaumaturge Thaumaturge is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Beryl, Utah USA
Posts: 4,627
Thanks: 3,713
Thanked 4,909 Times in 2,053 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s100 View Post

As to the videos, the lathe is impressive, but the guy milling the green casting is a yawner. His feed rates are high, but then he appears to be using a cutter with many teeth, so he has to move to maintain chip load. And he is cutting cast iron, not some tough alloy steel. At one time I ran a Rockford 36" hydraulic shaper and I was able to take cuts of 1" depth in mild steel. On short cuts the chips looked like lock washers.
Whoa, tough audience. I'm going back to lurking....
Doc
__________________
'The time has come', the Walrus said,'To talk of many things: Of shoes and ships and sealing-wax Of cabbages and kings'
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-26-2016, 12:40:58 PM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 109
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

I enjoyed the topic and the video! I would disagree about the huge cuts and so on, because of, for instance, the videos of the really new multi-axis CNC machining centers that both turn and mill - and sometimes both at the same time. Those often are chomping away big chips (within their limits of course) - and I've seen some really big crankshafts being machined out of solid stock (the chips were flying!). Sometimes the availability of the raw stock combined with the shape does require really heavy cutting and the removal of large amounts of metal. Casting and forging are great, but you can't always get the material that way in an economic/affordable manner, and have to go with standard stock.

Thaumaturge, your video was a special case - he was modifying a casting that was quite complex, to a point where it would fit a special application. I strongly suspect that his choice of tool and the cut was based on (1) the geometry of the part, (2) the amount of time it would take to remove the metal to fit the application, and (3) the maximum capacity of his machine. I got a chuckle when he popped the breaker - but popping a breaker is a lot better than breaking the machine! (The machine was wired right!) I don't like to second-guess people who are experts in their field, and I think he knew more about machining and modifying parts than people possibly realize!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Archaeometrist For This Post:
  #16  
Old 12-26-2016, 02:52:58 PM
OTTO-Sawyer's Avatar
OTTO-Sawyer OTTO-Sawyer is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Scioto Mills, Illinois USA
Posts: 8,968
Thanks: 20,789
Thanked 7,891 Times in 3,753 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeometrist View Post

- when it was doing cast iron, you could taste it!
I always loved machining Iron, but it got to the point where if I got within 30 feet of it I couldn't breath after a couple minutes and had to stay on the other side of the shop whenever someone else ran it.

I still do a little once in a while at home, but have to wear a mask, and even then I can only handle it for a short period of time.

__________________
I just keep coming back again and again like the Evil Twin of a Bad Penny !
http://www.youtube.com/user/oldSawyer?feature=watch

Last edited by OTTO-Sawyer; 12-26-2016 at 03:05:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-26-2016, 11:26:38 PM
s100 s100 is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Detroit, Michigan, USA
Posts: 822
Thanks: 201
Thanked 477 Times in 330 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Thaumaturge,

Please don't take it to heart. You started a good topic and it led to some good discussion. i did not mean anything against you or what you posted, just commenting on what I saw.

tmg50,

you raise an interesting point abut blue chips. As a general statement if a tool is sharp and right for the job and is operating within parameters it should NOT produce blue chips. However in some extreme situations, notably very heavy cuts at high speeds and feeds,such as when using ceramic tooling, a lot of heat will be generated, and if done properly things will be happening so fast that the heat is all localized in the chip, which may even glow red, but the workpiece remains relatively cool as the heat is gone before the work has a chance to heat up.

I have somewhere a picture of a seriously big Cincinnati-Bickford Hole Wizard radial drill that someone picked up with a crane and set on top of a giant casting for drilling and tapping some huge holes. That's beyond extreme!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to s100 For This Post:
  #18  
Old 12-27-2016, 01:09:10 AM
Archaeometrist Archaeometrist is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Lakeland, Florida
Posts: 421
Thanks: 109
Thanked 191 Times in 117 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s100 View Post
I have somewhere a picture of a seriously big Cincinnati-Bickford Hole Wizard radial drill that someone picked up with a crane and set on top of a giant casting for drilling and tapping some huge holes. That's beyond extreme!
If you find the picture, put it up if you would - I'd love to see it! (You'd probably have laughed at the way my jaw dropped - if the Hole Wizard is like what I think I'm remembering from one customer's shop, that was a BIG job!)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-27-2016, 03:21:51 AM
Vanman Vanman is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mission Viejo, California
Posts: 6,119
Thanks: 10,238
Thanked 2,906 Times in 1,944 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

In the first video, it struck me as if the ideal tool to start the project with would have been a large band saw. Guessing he didn't have anything like that at his disposal.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-27-2016, 11:26:14 AM
ronm ronm is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Fruita, Colorado USA
Posts: 4,474
Thanks: 2,904
Thanked 3,040 Times in 1,624 Posts
Default Re: How about some SERIOUS machining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaumaturge View Post
Whoa, tough audience. I'm going back to lurking....
Doc
Don't sweat it, Doc-SOP for a bunch of machinists...anal & opinionated...
This is mild compared to most REAL machinist sites.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Machining a flywheel? Gene Fisher Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 18 12-05-2016 12:44:45 PM
Machining Mica JKirkes A.G.S.E.M. at Vista, California 3 07-24-2016 11:52:19 AM
machining and re-sleeving Bob Brown Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 8 12-13-2012 10:41:11 AM
Machining Castings Manorfarmdenton Scale Model Engineering 43 04-02-2011 06:21:01 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:40:05 PM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277