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Antique Steel Wheel Tractors - Old Iron Lugs and Cleats

My first Twin City


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  #41  
Old 09-29-2010, 08:23:17 PM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Rick,
Eric's suggestion of Lock-n-stitch is an option. I have used this type of crack repair with decent results. The only problem I see is the length of needed repair...that is a pretty long crack!
Every abandon 12-20 I have ever seen torn down showed a valvetrain that was pretty well trashed...looks normal to me
Bad timming for early TC 12-20's...they were used hard through two lengthy and severe depressions. Cash strapped operators could not afford 8 new valves, so 16 of them was definately out of the question. They were ground/hand lapped until they were sunk clear into the port. I would guess rocker assemblies did not get hand oiled at regular intervals either, as most of those are shot as well.
No worries mate, it can all be overcome if you want it bad enough. At the rate Phil has been dragging Twin City tractors home, I would think he will have a parts tractor located soon enough
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  #42  
Old 09-29-2010, 11:02:10 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

I already had a spare engine for parts and I think I have everything Rick needs.
I'm going to pull the head on my 12-20 tomorrow to see what i need on that one. And yes, I have a 17-28 that we're parting out and I may have located another parts tractor.
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2011, 11:50:27 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Slowly making progress on this tractor, I have been tearing it down and sandblasting,repairing,painting the parts as they come off.
The valve cover had a hole in it from a rod that must have went through it.The oil pan had a gash in it from front to back that had been repaired in the past and the radiator had what looked to be a bullet hole in it.
I sent the head in for a total rebuild as none of the original valves are worth reusing.
The water pump was seized but I was able to get it apart, I repaired a couple of cracks in it with devcon (plastic steel) and I fitted it with new felt seals and grease cups which are reproduction Model T parts.
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  #44  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:25:29 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

I was having trouble getting some of the rust flakes out of the gas tank so I decided to remove the piece of pipe that was the gas filler only to have it drop into the tank
I ended up having to cut a hole in the top of the tank to get it out(pic 1)
In the second picture you can see the bondo work of art that someone had done to the underside of the tank.
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  #45  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:51:58 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Can anyone tell me how this governor is removed?
I have tried:
pulling, prying, poking, prodding, banging, hitting, hammering, smacking, wiggling, jiggling and jerking.
Heck I even tried YELLING at it and it STILL wouldn't come off
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  #46  
Old 01-29-2011, 10:30:28 AM
Tony Thompson Tony Thompson is offline
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Rick,
You need to start taking the governor apart. Once the housing is liberated from the shaft the rest will become obvious.
Those governors are hard to come by and that one looks real good
Tony
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  #47  
Old 01-30-2011, 11:10:20 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Today I came out victorious in the battle with the governor

I did not expect to need to dissemble the governor in order to remove it.

Tony
Thank you for helping me see the tool I should have been using.....my head!
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  #48  
Old 01-30-2011, 11:40:52 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Glad to see you got it apart, Rick.
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  #49  
Old 01-31-2011, 07:21:59 AM
ihredo4 ihredo4 is offline
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick.Schmitz View Post
Can anyone tell me how this governor is removed?
I have tried:
pulling, prying, poking, prodding, banging, hitting, hammering, smacking, wiggling, jiggling and jerking.
Heck I even tried YELLING at it and it STILL wouldn't come off
You didn't say anything about kicking the dog. It was suggested before. lol

That welding on the transmission looks all to familiar. A bearing roller got out of a bearing set in my McCormick-Deering O-4 and got jambed between the bull gear and housing. It blew the bottom of the rear end right out. There must be 10 lbs of brazing rod in the welding they did. Unfortunately it still leaks. Not looking forward to redoing that job.
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  #50  
Old 12-04-2011, 10:23:23 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Back to work on the old girl these days

Started cleaning and prepping the block for reassembly, I must have cleaned out over an ice cream pail full of rust flakes out of the water jacket of the engine.
I had to make various attachments for the vacuum and air hose to get it all out.
Found a piece of wood among the rust flakes(pic 3) I wonder how that got in there
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  #51  
Old 12-05-2011, 02:45:35 AM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Glad to see you're back working on it. I've got to get going on mine. Is that a crack between the blocks in pic 2, or am I seeing things??
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  #52  
Old 12-05-2011, 09:24:13 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Johnson View Post
Glad to see you're back working on it. I've got to get going on mine. Is that a crack between the blocks in pic 2, or am I seeing things??
Phil
What looks like a crack is actually a piece of tie wire I was using to hold the vacuum cleaner hose in place (you scared me there for a minute)

Have any of you guy's ever noticed letters and numbers welded on the inside of your blocks, mine has "P1-1" welded on the inside
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  #53  
Old 12-05-2011, 10:17:35 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Rick,
Love to see you wacking away at the old TC!
I have seen crude looking numbers and letters on heads and blocks that look like they were welded on or drawn in the sand casting... I do not have any idea what any of them mean
Thanks for posting,
Tony
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  #54  
Old 12-06-2011, 12:05:54 AM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Whew!! That's a relief, because I didn't remember seeing a crack there before!

My 12-20 has some of that crude inscription on the head, I haven't noticed any on or in the block.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:59:49 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

The pistons and rings seem to be in good condition so I am removing the rings just to clean out the carbon out of the grooves.

Three of the rod bearings did not have the "x" patterned oil grooves in them so I decided to make my own with the use of a dremel tool.(pic 3).

Does 50 foot lbs torque sound reasonable for the connecting rods to the crank?
I wonder if they even had torque wrenches back when these were made
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  #56  
Old 12-07-2011, 09:11:06 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

They did but I bet the in field mechanics seldom used them. Wood was an animals gift....I had twigs and petrified grasshoppers in my 27-44... and it was tightly sealed except a small oil hole on top of valve covers.
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  #57  
Old 12-11-2011, 09:56:51 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Had the head rebuilt, it got new valves, new seats and 13 replaced valve guides from a donor head that Phil Johnson supplied.The original guides were worn to oval shaped and could not be reused.
I had new head gaskets made from modern material (pic 3)

Should I use any form of a gasket adhesive with these new gaskets?
Any suggestions for a torque spec for the head bolts?
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:59:31 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City


Looking really good with the progress Rick!
I always oil the threads and keep making passes over the rod bolts a bit at a time. All of the sudden you can feel the nuts go snug. At that point I pull a little more and then sneak to the next available cotter key hole...If I were guessing I think I would be coming in at just under the 50 ft lb area. We are dealing with a low compression engine that turns 1,000 rpm...I think your bearing clearance is more important than an actual torque spec in this simple aplication.
Most folks seem to like a sealer on the head gaskets like copper kote.
Head torque numbers do not seem available either. Oil them, spin them all down and work from the center out over and over again in small increments. You will reach a point where it suddenly takes much more effort to make small gains...another pass or two and you are good. I have been doing it this way for years with no problems and I work my stuff at shows and plowing matches.
What did you use for valve and spring replacements?
Thanks for updates
Tony
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  #59  
Old 12-11-2011, 11:18:45 PM
Chris Props Chris Props is offline
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Default Re: My first Twin City

I came across an old manual, I can't remember what it was now, that said connecting rod bolts should be tightened to a point just before they strip.
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:44:53 PM
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Default Re: My first Twin City

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Thompson View Post

Most folks seem to like a sealer on the head gaskets like copper kote.
What did you use for valve and spring replacements?
Tony
I use copper kote all the time on other things,so I will try it on the head gasket as well then.

The head rebuilders used "CAT" valves and springs for the replacements, they said those valves were the closet match to the originals.I believe they just had to cut the valves for length and re-groove them for the retainers

The valve #'s are

CAT EIC-R 103-6304 IN

CAT EID-R 6I-1390 EX
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