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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Simplicity Timing


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  #1  
Old 07-20-2019, 05:33:50 PM
Craftsman56 Craftsman56 is offline
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Default Simplicity Timing

I have a 1 1/2 hp simplicity and tried for hours to get the spark,exhaust(open and close) to happen at the correct times.When I get the spark right,the exhaust starts to open late and doesn't close til the piston is half way back.When i watch videos,the exhaust gets touched and goes in about 1/4 in,fast in and out.My valve goes in pretty far,the piston is about 2 inches out of the cylinder before the valve closes.Right now I am looking for someone who can take a look and help me out getting it running.Someone who really likes tinkering on these,whos not in a hurry.I had a guy last fall who took off the cam gear,and 20 min later left,dont think he knew ,like I,what to do.I have had a hard time finding an engine guy who knows how to work on them here in wisconsin.I can take it to you or work here,Green bay,thanks for any help,Randy
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Old 07-20-2019, 05:54:40 PM
Blackbeard Blackbeard is offline
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Default Re: Simplicity timing

If you were local to me I’d already be there. I hope someone steps up to give you a hand.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:03:30 PM
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Rich Mueller Sr Rich Mueller Sr is offline
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Default Re: Simplicity timing

I only have the 6hp Napoleon, and not at home, but like any engine you want to get exhaust right first then the igniter. Try this put high lobe of cam at 1200 and rod throw at 1200 straight up and down and see how close exhaust timing is then. If I get time I can look on the 6 and see where things are to maybe help you later this week and then on The road again next wensday..
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:13:44 PM
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Ron Haskell Ron Haskell is offline
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Default Re: Simplicity timing

The generic timing for flywheel engines is: exhaust valve should start
to open 35-45° before bottom dead center, and close 5° after top dead
center. Spark should occur 5-7° before top dead center for each 100
revolutions per minute. With the greater number being used for low
tension ignition and the smaller used for high tension ignition.
Get the valve timing right first, then the ignition.
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Old 07-21-2019, 08:21:29 AM
ScooterBob ScooterBob is offline
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Default Re: Simplicity timing

Here's a link to a generic timing chart that will work for your engine, might help you visualize better...

https://www.smokstak.com/gallery/fil...t_new_page.jpg

Like others have said, forget about where ignition happens, you must get the exhaust timing right first, then adjust the trip mechanism position on the push rod as needed to set ignition timing. Remember, you have a two step cam lobe, pushes the push rod out partway to trip ignition, dwells there for close to half a crank revolution, then moves out the rest of the way to open the exhaust valve. A combination of gear timing and valve lash adjusting screw will get valve timing right. Could you post a picture of the push rod side of you engine so we can point out the location of the required adjustments?

If you still can't figure it out, I'd be happy to exchange phone numbers over private message and talk you through it. Also, if you can bring the engine to the Union Thresheree in Symco, WI next weekend, I'd be glad to walk you through timing it there. I'll be there from Thursday mid day through Sunday afternoon.
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:44:09 PM
Craftsman56 Craftsman56 is offline
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Default Re: Simplicity Timing

these are the pics for 1 1/2 hp simplicity.Hope that you can see how far off it is by the pics.Ill be back later today,wind took down a tree that fell on my new fence,getting new panels,posts survived.
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Old 07-21-2019, 09:23:41 PM
ScooterBob ScooterBob is offline
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Default Re: Simplicity Timing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craftsman56 View Post
Right now I am looking for someone who can take a look and help me out getting it running.Someone who really likes tinkering on these,whos not in a hurry.
There's plenty of engine folks in WI that will be glad to help.

From the sounds of things, what with the valve going in so far, you have the push rod length too long, which will cause excessive exhaust valve open duration. The valve should be open for approximately 220 degrees of flywheel rotation (35 degrees before BDC of power stroke PLUS 180 degrees of exhaust stroke PLUS 5 degrees after TDC) (specs from chart on previous post).

Forget for a moment where in the cycle the valve opens and closes, and adjust push rod length at the yoke circled in the picture to achieve about 220 degrees of valve open time (about 5/8 of a flywheel rotation).

Once the push rod length is about right (220 degrees of open), then adjust cam to crank gear timing so the open time happens when shown on the chart.

Once valve timing is set, then you can leave it alone and adjust ignition timing by trip arm position on push rod and/or trip arm length.

I sent my phone number via pm, give me a call if you would like to discuss further.
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