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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

1893 Dayton Serial #3 Outside for 101 Years


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  #21  
Old 02-14-2012, 12:15:03 PM
BuckeyeMan BuckeyeMan is offline
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

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Originally Posted by Culy View Post
Dave I've got a "?" not being familiar with Daytons. What is the third cam lobe for? What is its funtion? Just curious.
Brian
Brian, the one in the center is for the Ignitor, and the two outer one's, intake and exhaust. The 4th rod running up to the side of the valve box, is for the fuel valve....

Andrew, the wood spokes are what is left of a pulley.......
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  #22  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:12:15 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

After the engine was completely apart, the first thing that I needed to do was find a good heavy cart to mount the engine back on. I'm not big on carts, but it came on one so it needed to go back on one. I started making some calls to a few guys that deal in these thing and Larry out in Neb. said he had maybe what I was looking for. He sent me photos of about 6 different one to consider. Dad looked at all the photos and we made our decision and Larry said he could bring to Portland swap. It was not much to look at, but it was something to start with. One wheel was bent out of line about 8" and rusted solid to the axle, the 5th wheel was also a rusted mess.

The photos below are what I started with........DH
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  #23  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:30:04 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

The engine was originally on 9X9 timbers, so off to the saw mill in early spring so they could start to dry a little.
The wheels where taken to a local sandblaster (I did not want to spend 3 days doing all those spokes) he had the job done in a day and primed them the next. I did all the rest of the parts while he did the wheels.
I spent about 3 days with a ruler, paper and pencil trying to decide just how I wanted to put this all together. I needed room for the water pump, the pump drive, and water tank. This is what I came up with................DH
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2012, 08:17:46 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Dave, I think your cart is an original Root & Vandervoort truck. The Dayton will look nice on it.
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  #25  
Old 02-15-2012, 09:08:44 AM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is online now
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Dave,
Those carts were also used for side shaft Witte engines.
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  #26  
Old 02-15-2012, 10:44:43 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Thanks Tommy and Bill. Larry told me, he thought it was an old Witte cart, and then when Jeff Wahl posted the photos of that 12Hp R/V he got here some time back I noticed it was also the same cart.
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  #27  
Old 02-15-2012, 11:40:56 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Dave, Nice looking cart! I recommend hanging onto the original rails. They are nice I-beams, which you don't see too often, and I don't believe they make that size anymore. Maybe someone will need them?
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  #28  
Old 02-15-2012, 06:34:52 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Dave,

Are you going to try and use the original tallow pot to lubricate the cylinder? Or use another lubricating system?

-Mark
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  #29  
Old 02-16-2012, 02:54:36 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Yes Mark, This will be used, as it belongs on the and it should stay on. For those of you that have never seen an oiler like this, it was attached to the engine at the water coming out of the engine so that the worm water of the cylinder kept the oil worm. Don't quite know why they needed to do it this way, but that's the way it was made...........DH
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  #30  
Old 02-16-2012, 04:01:51 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

After the engine was completely disassemble, all the parts where inspected to see what work was going to need be done and what might take the longest to get done. The wheels where taken to Kramer's machine shop in Eaton Oh. to have the rimes turned to remove all the pitting. This work was done on there Bullard, and they came out real nice. All the large parts where sand blasted and Primed and Painted, this was all done last summer.

This is where I'm at up this point, as fare as getting it back together.
I'v spent about the last 4 weeks in the shop making all new nuts, bolts, pines, sleeves, screws, more bolts, and machining up all the rest of the parts that where rust pitted real bad. The head was taken to a local machine shop and used there C/C lathe to clean up the head, and I spent a day at DeBolt machine shop cutting a new cam gear on his 1950 Fellows gear shaper. I'll get more on here later...............DH
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  #31  
Old 02-16-2012, 04:09:29 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Looks like you were running the Kline in the background of the third pic. looking good, hope to see the Dayton running this summer.
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  #32  
Old 02-16-2012, 05:23:06 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

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Originally Posted by Tom Winland View Post
Looks like you were running the Kline in the background of the third pic. looking good, hope to see the Dayton running this summer.
Ye'll I remember it being hot and very humid that night, I didn't feel like doing anything cause the sweat was running out from under my fingernails, and that engine starts with very little effort, so it ran for about 4 hours that night and I just sat in the chair and watched and lessened to it run.............DH
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Old 02-16-2012, 09:24:00 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Dave-
Did you take any pictures during the process of straightening the wheel on the engine cart? Did you use any heat on the wheel spokes?
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  #34  
Old 02-17-2012, 02:11:54 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Dave-
Did you take any pictures during the process of straightening the wheel on the engine cart? Did you use any heat on the wheel spokes?
No I did not get any pictures of it, Sorry. I left the wheel on the axle and then clamped the axle to the frame rail. I used a jack to push out the wheel and come along 180 around the other side to pull. I only moved it about 1" at a time. Then with the torch I heated each spoke to relieve any stress. and I did over and over till I got it where it needed to be. Don't do it in July when I did it, It was one hell of a HOT job to do. An old Amish men showed me how to it.........................DH
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  #35  
Old 02-18-2012, 09:45:17 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Dave, looks real good. If you have a minute would you mind posting what kind of primer and paint you're using? Thanks

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeMan View Post
After the engine was completely disassemble, all the parts where inspected to see what work was going to need be done and what might take the longest to get done. The wheels where taken to Kramer's machine shop in Eaton Oh. to have the rimes turned to remove all the pitting. This work was done on there Bullard, and they came out real nice. All the large parts where sand blasted and Primed and Painted, this was all done last summer.

This is where I'm at up this point, as fare as getting it back together.
I'v spent about the last 4 weeks in the shop making all new nuts, bolts, pines, sleeves, screws, more bolts, and machining up all the rest of the parts that where rust pitted real bad. The head was taken to a local machine shop and used there C/C lathe to clean up the head, and I spent a day at DeBolt machine shop cutting a new cam gear on his 1950 Fellows gear shaper. I'll get more on here later...............DH
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  #36  
Old 02-19-2012, 11:06:47 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Mike,
The products Dave has been using have primarly been from the Dupont ecomomy line of Nason and Dupont industrial coatings.
The bare to metal large pieces and castings he is using Dupont Industrial Coatings Corlar 2.1voc Mastic primer.
Its a great product, it can be sprayed or brushed on and can be used in temps as low as 35 degress f. but it takes a while to kick and dry but it does work very well and is reasonably inexpensive. Here is a link to the product data sheet.

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...orlar2-1ST.pdf

For small parts and small sheet metal parts he is using the dupont aerosol self etching primer, It's not for everything but real handy for small parts to prevent corosion and very convient as you dont have to break out a gun or worry about clean up and overspray.

http://dpcprd.asp.dupont.com/dpc/en/...013_AeroOV.pdf

For the top coat he has been using Nason fast dry Enamel, it does not use a catalyst, dries fairly quick and is durable.
We have been using a flattening compound in most of the paints we mix for dave . Dupont recomends not using a flattner in paints that do not use a catalyst , but we have been using a flattening agent from the Dupont industrial coatings line rk29000 with good success. Even though not recomended.

http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...pcoat_IE_E.pdf
Hope this helps
Jim Washington
As for isocyanates
Drinkning untaxed likker and smoking cigarettes while painting is just as hard on the body.
You should wait until your done spraying for that stuff.

Last edited by jwx3; 02-19-2012 at 11:32:38 AM.
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  #37  
Old 02-21-2012, 09:53:32 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial#3 Outside for 101 Years

Thanks Jim, that's some real good information on paint and will help out a lot of folks here on Harry's.
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Old 02-22-2012, 02:30:35 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial #3 Outside for 101 Years

Armex baking soda 25.00 per bag

air compressor 9000.00

sodablasting equipment 10,000.00

dogging somebody over the
world wide web for freeloading PRICELESS
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:03:00 PM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial #3 Outside for 101 Years

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Originally Posted by jwx3 View Post
Armex baking soda 25.00 per bag

air compressor 9000.00

sodablasting equipment 10,000.00

dogging somebody over the
world wide web for freeloading PRICELESS
Its good to have good friends with expensive toys, for those little jobs..............DH
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:15:38 AM
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Default Re: 1893 Dayton Serial #3 Outside for 101 Years

Here's an update on the restoration. The first thing I wanted to show was what I think is the reason the engine was stopped being used, and was left to sit.
All the Cams are held on the shaft with a set screw and a Tapper pin. When I was getting the engine apart I found that the Tapper pin on the center cam (witch is the one that trips the Ignitor) was missing, and you can see that the set screw was moving around on the shaft until the engine was so far out of time it would no longer run. There where also several places on the shaft all the way around where the set screw had been tightened up as they where trying to get it pack in time, with no luck I would say.

The other photos are of the cams before and after machining to remove the pitting. I was not going to get them all out, as some of them are very deep, so I did what I could to get them to look better. And the last photo is of the Fellows Gear shaper cutting the new cam gear...............DH
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