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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Root and Vandervoort 12 HP Portable Engine Restoration


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  #21  
Old 01-02-2012, 12:00:16 AM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

John,

Do you remember this thread you started?

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showth...ht=vandervoort

I've had many similar dreams, I guess dreams can come true!

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 PM ----------

Wayne,

Didn't find the screen and the tank is shot, only good for patern. Will get diameter tomorrow, that would be awsome!

You wouldn't happen to have a pair of 30" front and 36" rear cart wheels with 6" face and flat spokes, maybe Bentendorf? This one came with flat tires, pictures to follow in future post!
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2012, 02:38:18 AM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

Let's see if the Wahl Boys can find that illusive serial number.
Tom & Jeff, have a look around the head plate where it bolts onto the block, where the barrel bolts to the crankcase or on the end of the crankshaft.
Are you sure that brass plate is not still sitting on the floor of that good ol' barn way back in Georgia

Regards
Peter Lowe
R&V Engine Registrar
http://www.oldengine.org/members/plo...nes/rvpage.htm
Australia
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  #23  
Old 01-02-2012, 02:58:32 AM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

Let's see if the Wahl Boys can find that illusive serial number.
Tom & Jeff, have a look around the head/ignitor plate where it bolts onto the block, or on the end of the crankshaft.
Are you sure that brass plate is not still sitting on the floor of that good ol' barn way back in Georgia
I am not going to give a HP until I have the serial number, the New Improved Cooling System is a give away to approx date, that is the cone shaped screen on the round tank.
The attached pics are from a horizontal H&M. R&V.

Regards
Peter Lowe
R&V Engine Registrar
http://www.oldengine.org/members/plo...nes/rvpage.htm
Australia
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  #24  
Old 01-02-2012, 05:46:28 AM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

The 1912 catalogue lists the 12hp with 52" flywheels. The next size up is the 16hp with 53 1/2" flywheels.
I have also attached an image from the catalogue showing the factory hopper replacement.
Patrick
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wahl View Post

This R&V engine has 52" flywheels, a 30" clutch pulley, a 18" regular pulley, and cart wheels with a 6" face. Based on a 1909 catalog, the measurements match a 14 HP R&V. This is a volume governed R&V engine with a full side-shaft. This portable unit is of a hopper cooled engine, with a factory cylinder plate and cooling tank replacing the water hopper. It is probably of vintage 1910 or later. It is possible that the HP for the hopper cooled engines was rerated at this time. I would be interested in specifications from a 1910 or later R&V catalog if anyone has one.

Happy New Year and will be posting more pictures in the new year! Jeff
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  #25  
Old 01-02-2012, 11:21:46 AM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

Here is a picture from a 1918 catalog that shows the screen cooled R&V on trucks. This has the plate on top of the cylinder like your engine.

Barry
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  #26  
Old 01-02-2012, 11:28:43 AM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

That is an Extremely nice engine Jeff,,good find,,that barn reminds me of a barn I found last fall in the woods,there was no roads going to it!at least not for 50+ years I did find an old compressor and motor,oliver sickle mower,seeder,black smith blower,and lots of smaller stuff,4 older 30's cars ect,,I made over 6 trips out of those woods,I had to take a chain saw to cut trees down to get the cars out,and the barn stuff I had a friend help me haul it out on 2 wheel carts,we ended up leaving a big early hay rake,IHC sickle mower and hammer mill,,it was just to hard to get out out there,you couldn't drive any closer than a quarter mile of the barn without cutting several trees! I covered those woods good looking for an engine,,glad you found it!,,Oh and I did pay the owner for everything!,,,,I'm sure if there would have something like that in that barn there would have been several more tree's on the ground!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Jim
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  #27  
Old 01-02-2012, 12:19:21 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

Looks like the name on the front of the battery box painted in red was "Eunice". Sounds like a great name for her!

Congrats on a find of a lifetime!
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  #28  
Old 01-02-2012, 04:28:37 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

Jeff I hope you don't mind, but I can give a little bit more information on the backstory on this engine.

The morning of Dec. 20, I had the following email in my mail box.

"I was a little curious about an old barn I found on some property I bought a year or so ago and went to research a stationary engine I found in it and found your website, I'm willing to bet you know more about these things than I do. I never would have dreamed of rebuilding one of these things, I bet that was a task. This thing is huge, a good seven to eight feet long and five or so tall, looks very similar to the one on your page but on wheels and six times the size. I'm not even sure if you are getting email to this address anymore or if you will even get this but I will take some pictures this afternoon and can send them your way if you would like. I would really like to know what the best thing to do with it is, what it's worth and who would want it. Please let me know if you get this and have just a sec to look at a few pics. Thanks for all of your help. Adam."


After exchanging E-mails with Adam, getting some pictures and started the following thread.

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99079

I soon discovered the engine was way down in Atlanta over 2100 miles away. I decided that the engine was too big and too far away for me to pursue, and passed the information on to a couple of fellow stakers that were interested if I was not, and let them pursue the engine.

Now if only I can find something in my neck of the woods instead of all the IHC LB's and Fairbanks D's.

Thanks for the update Jeff, I will be interested in following the story of this engine!
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  #29  
Old 01-02-2012, 05:10:50 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 14 HP Root and Vandervoort

Thanks everyone for the information and illustrations! I was thinking it might not be a 14 HP as the BYB says R&V started offering hopper cooled models in 1910 with 12 and 16 HP sizes. Just needed catalog specifications to confirm which size had the 52" flywheels! Can someone provide a scan of the specifications table with the 12 HP portable engine in 1911 or 1912?

Barry, that 1918 catalog scan is neat! Very similar portable engine, but with later style cart axles and no disc crank. I thought all full side-shaft R&Vs had disc cranks.

I'm curious how many 10 HP and larger portable side-shaft engines are out there? I've only seen a picture of one other huge portable R&V.

So now that I know this is a 12 HP R&V, how do I change the thread title -- Done.
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  #30  
Old 01-02-2012, 07:25:53 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Hi Jeff,
here is the specification table from the 1912 John Deere Catalogue.
Patrick
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  #31  
Old 01-02-2012, 07:32:20 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Just having a look through the sizes for comparison. The 12hp sideshaft R&V is a much bigger beast that my Triumph Line 12hp.
My 12hp R&V has 40" flywheels which are quite a bit smaller than the 52" ones on the sideshaft engine. The shipping weight of my engine is 2300lbs (2650lbs for the portable) while the sideshaft 12hp weighs in at 4400lbs; and I thought my 12hp R&V is a beast to drag around
Patrick
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  #32  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:22:59 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Patrick, thanks for the specifications! Not an exact match though...this R&V has the 30" and 36" truck wheels and 52" flywheel of the 12 HP, but has the 6" tire face and 30"x8" clutch pulley of the 16 HP. Maybe I need to get the pulleys off and measure the flywheel diameter more closely, 53 1/2" isn't that much bigger. Or maybe this is a hybrid 13 or 15 HP Cylinder bore sizes would sure help! Guess I better grab a metal detector and go hunt for that original tag!!!

That's a beautiful 12hp Triump Line!
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  #33  
Old 01-02-2012, 09:03:01 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Jeff, I am only 3 hours east of Atlanta, I'll go look for your tag if I could get a good price on some of the smaller equipment in the back ground of some of the pics
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  #34  
Old 01-02-2012, 09:06:34 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Jeff, I don't know what type tag your engine should have on it but the RV sideshaft I own (and will get it home one of these days) has a round cast tag on it (the engine had water on it when the photos were made).
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  #35  
Old 01-02-2012, 10:59:10 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Here is the spec table from a 1912 R&V catalog. This chart lists the wheels as 6" wide. Clutch pulley could be ordered in other sizes besides the standard in the chart, dependent on needs for equipment being driven. R&V did not publish bore & stroke for engines in their catalogs (unfortunately). I still think your engine is a match for a 12 HP from 1912.

Barry
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  #36  
Old 01-02-2012, 11:48:40 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Jeff, that's a nice dream engine you have there. I sure hope someone can save the thresher and huller they are hard to find even with a roof sitting on them!.
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  #37  
Old 01-03-2012, 05:41:33 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

Jeff, What a great engine to find. I don't know much about the sideshafts, but my 1912 14hp has 52" wheels. It is a hopper cooled model W.
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:40:50 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

I took some more pictures of the big R&V before the restoration starts. I'll title this series the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

We'll start with the Good: head and ignitor, vertical governor with nice weights, mount for Wizard friction magneto, disc crank, small water pump pulley
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:53:32 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

More Good: carb, pre-heater bowl, original fuel lines and fuel pump, factory plate in place of water hopper, exhaust cage and water lines, muffler seperated by mud daubers, but we do have the other two pieces!
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Old 01-16-2012, 04:58:40 PM
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Default Re: Still Out There - 12 HP Root and Vandervoort

More Good: irons for foot rest, wood seat / battery box and flooring (good for pattern), cooling tank (good for pattern), water pump and end of gas tank
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