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150hp Snow


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  #1  
Old 06-15-2014, 11:30:48 PM
JWithers JWithers is offline
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Default 150hp Snow

Here is a video of my families 150hp Snow engine. It is an air injected oil engine. It is not a tandem. It has called Rollag home since 1983. I learned how to start and run this engine today. My dad and uncle will know a lot more about this engine than I so hopefully they will weigh in on this.

http://youtu.be/fvYwtvyopEs
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Old 06-16-2014, 01:22:57 AM
Frank46 Frank46 is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Just got finished watching the video on the 150 ho snow engine. Love the whooshing noise. I could put a chair and sit there just watching that engine run. thanks for posting. Frank
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:06:03 AM
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Very nice!!! Thank you!!
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:46:07 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

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Originally Posted by JWithers View Post
It has called Rollag home since 1983. I learned how to start and run this engine today. My dad and uncle will know a lot more about this engine than I so hopefully they will weigh in on this.
Congratulations Jeremy! I helped haul, clean, paint, build foundation,assemble and plumb this engine. I don't know how to start and run this engine.
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Old 06-16-2014, 09:20:07 PM
Peter Short Peter Short is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Thanks for the video - there can't be many blast air injection diesels running. It would be good to hear it under load - apparently they do not have the diesel knock of the solid injection engines.

Can we have any history, date and technical details of this engine please?

According to Diesel's Engine, Snow made these engines in three cylinder sizes, I think this was the largest. (Book says 19" x 33" but I see makers plate says 20" x 33").

Interesting to see the cam shaft on the cylinder head. I have a picture of a 1918 DeLaVergne 'FD' engine with similar design, including the multi-stage air compressor on its own crank pin.
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:59:21 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

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Originally Posted by Frank46 View Post
Just got finished watching the video on the 150 ho snow engine. Love the whooshing noise. I could put a chair and sit there just watching that engine run. thanks for posting. Frank
You can pull up your lawn chair every labor day weekend at Rollag and watch it all you want. We are looking for additional operators during the show. Jeremy will train!
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:38:55 PM
JWithers JWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

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Originally Posted by Peter Short View Post
Thanks for the video - there can't be many blast air injection diesels running. It would be good to hear it under load - apparently they do not have the diesel knock of the solid injection engines.

Can we have any history, date and technical details of this engine please?

According to Diesel's Engine, Snow made these engines in three cylinder sizes, I think this was the largest. (Book says 19" x 33" but I see makers plate says 20" x 33").



Interesting to see the cam shaft on the cylinder head. I have a picture of a 1918 DeLaVergne 'FD' engine with similar design, including the multi-stage air compressor on its own crank pin.
I'm sorry to say that I don't know a lot of details about this engine except that it pumped something (oil?) halfway up a mountain to another pumping station where another 200hp Snow like this pumped it the rest of the way up. It was built in 1917 and a sign typed up by the display says it ran through WW1, WW2, and Korea for sure.
It is interesting that the book would say that 19x33 was the biggest when this one says 20x33. Then there is the 200hp I mentioned, which I hear was considerably larger physically.
I will be around this engine again this weekend so I will try to get some more details.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:10:08 PM
JWithers JWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Some additional information. This is what the sign posted for the display reads

1917 150hp air injection diesel (20x33) manufactured by Steam Pump Works Buffalo,NY for 4 years
Air Injected Fuel - 850-1050 psi
Flywheel - 11'6'' weighing 14 tons
Crankshaft - 11½" pin weighing 7 tons
Started with compressed air
The engine worked at the Olmstead Transfer Pump Station for the Tidewater Pipeline Company near Coudersport, Potter County, PA. The engine pumped crude oil over a mountain into New Jersey. It operated in a 91'x47' brick and tile station. The engine powered a 4¾''x18'' horizontal Deane double acting triplex pump.
The engine ran until 1958, working through WWI, WWII, Korean War, and (?) of the Vietnam War.
What effect could this engine have had on your life?
Moved to Rollag in 1983

I also have another article to share but don't have time to retype it right now
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Old 07-04-2014, 12:39:00 AM
JWithers JWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

And here is an article that appeared in our show news paper

The 1917 Air-Fuel Injected Diesel Runs In 1993
by Kermit Nelson, Hawley,MN
The 150hp, air-fuel injected diesel engine was manufactured in Buffalo,NY in 1917 with a bore of 20 inches and a stroke of 33 inches. The fuel is prestored in the fuel-air injector and blown out with air pressure. To accomplish this, the engine has its own two stage air compressor delivering pressure as high as 1200psi which will blow a relief valve. The fuel is premeasured by a governed fuel pump, also connected to the injector. As the engine rotates to TDC on the compression stroke, a lobe on the camshaft releases the compressed air to deliver the fuel. The compression stroke creates about 800 degrees of heat igniting the fuel for the power stroke.
During the engines working days (1917-1958) it pulled a three cylinder, double acting horizontal Deane pump. The engine was located at Olmstead Station in Coudersport, Pennsylvania. It pumped crude oil over a mountain range into New Jersey for the Tidewater Pipeline.
This engine has a big sister (200hp) at Coolsprings, Pennsylvania which is the only other known engine like it. According to the operators manual, as many as three cylinders were put together to make a power unit. These engines also have some cousins (400 and 600hp) in Pennsylvania.
They are four cylinder, tandem, natural gas fired used for compressing natural gas. There are only two of the 600hp engines remaining, one of which was moved to Rollag in October of 1992. The last of the parts were moved in September of 1993.
The 150hp Snow was purchased by Jim Withers and moved to Rollag in 1983 during the WMSTR show. In 1984 Jim Withers began setting up the engine, using some 27 yards of concrete for its base. Weight of the major parts are base 20 ton, crank 7 ton, 11 foot 6 inch fly wheel 14 ton with a total weight of 45 ton; all parts to be set in their places at thatengine After being reassembled, a number of attempts were made to get the engine to fire up. During this time a roof was constructed over the engine.
About 1989, a person by the name of Kermit Nelson inquired as to why the engine did not run. After gathering some information about the engine, Nelson took up the challenge to get the two stage air compressor to deliver enough air pressure.
After four years of studying, examining, and working with engine parts, another attempt ( just before show time of 1992) was made to get the engine to fire, without success. Peter Kieffer of Casselton agreed to put hot water from his steam engine into the Snow cylinder block. Peter also belted up to the Snow with his single cylinder steam engine. Some say the engine fired several times but it did not run.
With hopes running wild, that the engine was ready to run, more power was needed to roll the Snow over faster to raise the compression temperatures higher for combustion. Bill McCrearyof Treherne,Manitoba Canada was asked to belt up to the Snow with the 120hp Rumley steam engine ( the Rumley was being reflued on the showgrounds). Very late the next night ( Saturday) Bill and Dell Dalquist of Sales, ND belted up to the 150 Snow with the 120 Rumley steamer. With help from the air start system and the steamer, the Snow engine started and was soon shut down. Bill and Dell were laughingly told they could put their pony engine to bed.
The next day the Snow was checked for adjustments and serviced for running. The pony engine was again belted up and the Snow fired up. The engine ran for two hours before burning out the rod bearing. Plans were made to get the bearing renewed by the 1993 show.
Again for the 1993 show the "pony engine" was belted up to the Snow for a successful season. With some minor adjustments to the engine and a higher pressure air compressor for the air start system, it is hoped the "pony engine" will no longer be needed. The engine will run again, as manufactured, for the 1994 Western Minnesota Steam Threshers Reunion.
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Old 07-04-2014, 08:19:49 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

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Originally Posted by JWithers View Post
About 1989, a person by the name of Kermit Nelson inquired as to why the engine did not run. After gathering some information about the engine, Nelson took up the challenge to get the two stage air compressor to deliver enough air pressure.
After four years of studying, examining, and working with engine parts, another attempt ( just before show time of 1992) was made to get the engine to fire, without success. Peter Kieffer of Casselton agreed to put hot water from his steam engine into the Snow cylinder block. Peter also belted up to the Snow with his single cylinder steam engine. Some say the engine fired several times but it did not run.
With hopes running wild, that the engine was ready to run, more power was needed to roll the Snow over faster to raise the compression temperatures higher for combustion. Bill McCrearyof Treherne,Manitoba Canada was asked to belt up to the Snow with the 120hp Rumley steam engine ( the Rumley was being reflued on the showgrounds). Very late the next night ( Saturday) Bill and Dell Dalquist of Sales, ND belted up to the 150 Snow with the 120 Rumley steamer. With help from the air start system and the steamer, the Snow engine started and was soon shut down. Bill and Dell were laughingly told they could put their pony engine to bed.
The next day the Snow was checked for adjustments and serviced for running. The pony engine was again belted up and the Snow fired up. The engine ran for two hours before burning out the rod bearing. Plans were made to get the bearing renewed by the 1993 show.
Again for the 1993 show the "pony engine" was belted up to the Snow for a successful season. With some minor adjustments to the engine and a higher pressure air compressor for the air start system, it is hoped the "pony engine" will no longer be needed. The engine will run again, as manufactured, for the 1994 Western Minnesota Steam Threshers Reunion.
A couple things should be noted here. Dell is from Sarles,ND not Sales. They didn't just belt up to the Snow to get it running. Dad made a pulley to bolt onto the crankshaft where the direct drive pump would have been attached. We redid the air start system with a larger air tank and changed the airline from 1 1/2" to 2". Dad had an engineer friend that explained that the 1/2" increase changed capacity ???x's greater. Before Kermit worked on this engine there was another gentleman that spent a fair amount of time trying figuring out the ins and outs of the valve system on the injection air compressor. (I'm so sorry but I can't remember his name right now. OLDTIMERS disease! I so want to recognize him here. I was just thinking about him the other day too. ...) He also worked with Kermit on getting this engine going. What Kermit found was that when we assembled the engine we had put gaskets on the valve cages. Logical. Only they were a tapered seat cage, no gasket required. We took out the gaskets, reassembled, tried it on air and away she went. Dad had me take the starting pulley off, never to be found near the engine again.

It should also be noted that Kermit has been the head engineer ever since. He has spent many hours during the show and during the summer months getting engine this fine tuned. It is almost a sure bet this will be the first engine running on the show grounds each spring. It runs about as good as any engine you'll ever see. Thanks Kermit! Kermit spent most of his life as the engineer for the City of Hawley,MN municipal power plant taking care if some Fairbanks-Morse and Nordberg engines I believe.

As stated earlier, Kermit has been the head engineer on this engine for many years. He would also like to spend less time with the engine. We are looking for some guys interested in spending a couple hours with the engine during the show. Please see me, Keven, Jeremy or Kermit. Thanks.
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Old 07-04-2014, 07:15:41 PM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

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Originally Posted by jswithers View Post
Before Kermit worked on this engine there was another gentleman that spent a fair amount of time trying figuring out the ins and outs of the valve system on the injection air compressor. (I'm so sorry but I can't remember his name right now. OLDTIMERS disease! I so want to recognize him here. I was just thinking about him the other day too. ...) He also worked with Kermit on getting this engine going.
I believe his name is Ben ??? and I believe he's from Motorhead,MN.

---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 PM ----------

Not Motorhead. Moorhead.
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Old 07-05-2014, 12:42:12 AM
Frank46 Frank46 is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

JS, I spent three years and a bit as a guest of uncle sam's navy on a steam powered aircraft carrier. And another 30 years working at an oil tank farm. Oldest stuff I worked with was dated 1911 builders plate on two of our eight fuel oil tanks. Double acting steam pumps, you knew you had it running right when listening to the exhaust coming out of the multi port on the exhaust stack. We had one big worthinton that when running right sounded just like a steam loco. retired back in late '95 and all those pumps are probably gone now. Frank
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Old 07-05-2014, 07:13:46 AM
JSWithers JSWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

FRANK46, I can certainly relate to knowing how they are running by the sound of their exhaust. I would have to say I don't know what this one sounds like under load but I do know this one is running at show speed as smooth, steady and quiet as any of the big stationary steam engines here at Rollag. And there are several that are pretty nice.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:28:24 PM
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Went to the post office today and had a surprise parcel in the mail today from a good friend in Pennsylvania. He had seen the video posted by my nephew Jeremy on the 150 Snow. His reply was Impressive!!!. Also enclosed in the envelope were 2 photos of Olmstead Station that the Snow was in. He did say that Tide-Water had actually spelled Olmstead wrong. Actual spelling is Olmsted.

He went on to say that Olmstead was the second station of a total of seven between Rixford, Pa and the refinery at Bayonne, NJ. There were two other engines in Olmstead with the Snow. A four cylinder Busch-Sulzer and a three cylinder De La Vergne. Only the foundations remain today.

He believes the Pickup in the picture is 1947 Studebaker.

Thanks Mike for the pictures and information.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:05:57 PM
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Kevin, thanks for the photos and i used the first one for the background photo on my computer screen. gene
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:26:24 PM
JWithers JWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Keven, you weren't kidding when you told me earlier that you got something interesting in the mail! Very nice.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:15:45 AM
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Keven:
Very nice photo's and some good history on the 150. Did you and your father ever visit that pump station or was it gone by then?
Thanks to Jeromey for posting the video.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:03:38 PM
JWithers JWithers is offline
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

Here is an advertisement for Snow oil engines from February 1, 1913. It is not set up like the 150 but is probably what a 200 would look like.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:34:38 PM
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

A multi cylinder very impressive Snow engine at Florida Flywheelers Park.
JG
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Old 01-09-2015, 01:58:55 AM
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Default Re: 150hp Snow

jswithers, love the engine in the video. Nice sounds. Getting back to the tank farm engines. Like I mentioned I did this for about 30 years and always was a steam freak. It just was a case by where you cranked open the steam and exhaust valves and walked away. The big worthington I mentioned sometimes in the very cold winters we got you sometimes had to partially close in on the exhaust valve and let things get good and hot. These were all unheated pump houses and except for the steam lines to the pumps were almost as cold as outside. I spend anywhere from an hour to two hours with that pump. Sometimes making adjustments to the valve linkages during this time. The mechanics didn't like to crank her up due to the fack that the whole pump house would vibrate and they would have to swap out tanks for fuel oil transfers. In fact one night I set it up and she was barking good. Hour later here comes the mechanic and by watching the exhaust stack I could tell he slowed it down. He'd walk away so back down the pump house I'd go and crank it up again. Hour later he's back slowing it down again. This goes on for a couple hours and he shows up in my office complaining there is something wrong with the pump. He goes in there and its chugging along good and fast, he slows it down and a hour later it going fast again. I cracked up and told him it was me who cranked the pump and told him to leave it that way. The pumps were pulling 60K gallons an hour out of the transfer tank. I said how are you going to keep up when every time you slow it down. What he didn't say was he didn't want to change over tanks before he finished his watch and his relief came in. Ah the good old days. Frank
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