Antique Engines and Old Iron
[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Library] - [Photo Gallery] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Links] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion Meet collectors of hit and miss engines, ask questions about collecting, restoring and showing antique flywheel engines.

Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?


this thread has 82 replies and has been viewed 23256 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-10-2007, 07:50:27 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,050
Thanks: 1,632
Thanked 2,053 Times in 558 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Just a thought I have, I know maybe it is a long bow to draw. Akroyd's early patents were tested on an inverted Spiel. Do you guys think it is possible that Otto's first engine was a modified gas pump ?

I have uploaded 2 documents. The first is a diagram of Ottos' first engine of 1863 out of the German book by Sass. The second is a diagram of a gas pump from a book for Gas Engineers. Not this exact pump of course, but one of simlar design.

Maybe my idea is too far out in left field but I would like to hear what you guys think either way ? (I've been called nuts before)

Best regards, Wayne.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sass.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	112.2 KB
ID:	25568   Click image for larger version

Name:	gas producer.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	115.7 KB
ID:	25569  
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old 11-11-2007, 05:01:17 PM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 180
Thanks: 54
Thanked 227 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi everyone,

Today we went to some hobby friends and at the last visit we bumped into Kees Fitters.
Kees is known by many as he roams the continent for old technical treasures.
He has some really nice engines and he is also is one of the writers of "de Klep" the bi-monthly magazine of HMT our old engine and tractor club.
He also has a very impressive collection of books, old rare and special technical books seem attracted to him as he has books we have only heard off.
As he has a good grasp of the French, German and English language and searches all over Europe and beyond for ?????30????? years, he is a good source of information.
So I asked Kees, did he have good pictures of the engine in the Deutz museum and probably more and explained about this discussion.
He said yes I have and then I asked if I could share his email address with you all? he said yes that's okay with me.
He isn't familiar with "SmokStak" he said and so I tried to make him understand what a good forum this was.... I hope he'll join us all here.
Anyway, here is Kees's Email address: sparkydog@wanadoo.nl

Very best regards of all of us,
Jeanne
www.stationaryengines.tk

Last edited by Oostvogels; 11-12-2007 at 04:19:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-13-2007, 01:57:34 PM
Wayne Grenning's Avatar
Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lockport, New York, USA
Posts: 3,245
Thanks: 3,178
Thanked 28,385 Times in 2,568 Posts
Images: 72
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne, Thanks for posting the information on the Abel Patent. Curious machine indeed !

Also - You make an interesting observation regarding the gas pump. There is a striking similarity between Otto's 1863 design and the drawing you posted. Many of the early inventors used subcomponents of other designs or systems. Look at the Lenoir engine - Looks like a steam engine to me. Too bad the early history ( pre 1867) of Otto is not well documented. - Wayne
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-14-2007, 05:45:13 PM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 180
Thanks: 54
Thanked 227 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi,

I've located mr. Dietmar Voss, he only speaks German but he prommised me to give me details on the Engine.
The Engine is still in the collection.
I'll keep you all posted. My German is very bad so I hope he understood the questions I asked him.

Regards Jeanne
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:11:27 PM
Wayne Grenning's Avatar
Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lockport, New York, USA
Posts: 3,245
Thanks: 3,178
Thanked 28,385 Times in 2,568 Posts
Images: 72
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Thank you Jeanne
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-16-2007, 03:34:58 PM
Marcel P's Avatar
Marcel P Marcel P is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belgium
Posts: 737
Thanks: 3,679
Thanked 1,383 Times in 336 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oostvogels View Post
Hi,

I've located mr. Dietmar Voss, he only speaks German but he prommised me to give me details on the Engine.
The Engine is still in the collection.
I'll keep you all posted. My German is very bad so I hope he understood the questions I asked him.

Regards Jeanne
Hi Jeanne
Let me know if you need help with translation. I think the information that Mr. Voss can supply us with is of great value. He was our guide when we visited the collection and he certainly knows what he is talking about.
Best regards
Marcel
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-16-2007, 07:09:54 PM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 180
Thanks: 54
Thanked 227 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

I'll give all the info I get, Reading and understanding German is no problem at all but I had Mr.Voss on the phone and he only could speak German, My German is self learned so I know my limmits.
Thanks for you offer of help, I will be glad to ask for your help.
He said he could give a lot of information so I am waiting.
Best regards of Jeanne
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-19-2007, 07:56:24 AM
Reid
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Red face Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Timms View Post
A bit off the topic of number 1 but I thought this might be of interest.
I attach pictures of patents which I have, not sure of how it works but it is a self propelled atmospheric engine.
The patent says 1875 Oct 18 Abel's specifications.
If they ever built it, it would certainly challenge the Damiler Benz story.
Regards,
Wayne
Wonderful engine and all that, but seems to be more "auto-motive" than automobile.

Hello, this is my first posting to the forum. I don't know very much, but am intensely interested in these very early machines.

Wayne G, I post as "Hartford Tommy" at YT, which is where I just met with this topic the other day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MqDWgxj0Mc (and you've been into it for nearly twenty years!)

My oldest "engine" is this thing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkLyhUCIJW0
the first mains-powered electric motor

With apology, no distraction from the topic intended,

r.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-26-2007, 03:23:37 PM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 180
Thanks: 54
Thanked 227 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi all,

I am still waiting for the prommised information of mr. Dietmar Voss
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-26-2007, 03:42:24 PM
Wayne Grenning's Avatar
Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lockport, New York, USA
Posts: 3,245
Thanks: 3,178
Thanked 28,385 Times in 2,568 Posts
Images: 72
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

No problem.....
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-29-2007, 04:46:31 PM
Brian Triebner's Avatar
Brian Triebner Brian Triebner is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kippen, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 780
Thanks: 5,326
Thanked 852 Times in 279 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Thought this might fit in with this thread . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjSVJ_uVjNk
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-29-2007, 08:59:35 PM
Brian Triebner's Avatar
Brian Triebner Brian Triebner is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kippen, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 780
Thanks: 5,326
Thanked 852 Times in 279 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

We were in Florence last fall at the time of their city marathon. We saw many of the runners in the market after they finished the marathon and I commented one about his medal. To my surprise he spoke some English so I had to ask him about Barsanti and Matteucci and their engine . I knew they were born nearby and if there might be a museum with an engine. To my surprise he new about them and that they invented the gas engine 10 years ahead of Otto and Langen. I didn't find an engine but they do know their history.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:46:55 PM
Wayne Grenning's Avatar
Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lockport, New York, USA
Posts: 3,245
Thanks: 3,178
Thanked 28,385 Times in 2,568 Posts
Images: 72
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Brian - Here is a link to a web site with much more info on their engine.

http://www.barsantiematteucci.it/Inglese/home_eng.htm


Wayne
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:16:30 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,050
Thanks: 1,632
Thanked 2,053 Times in 558 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi,
Below is a photo from a French book I have, by Hugo Guldner.
This engine probably deserves more recognition than it gets.
I am not aware that an original exists - does anyone else know if one exists ?
I have drawings somewhere but can't find them at the moment, which shows the engine in detail, unfortunately most of the working parts are below floor level, which makes it an undesirable engine to reproduce.
Wayne
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bassanti.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	35.9 KB
ID:	26476  
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:28:49 PM
Brian Triebner's Avatar
Brian Triebner Brian Triebner is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kippen, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 780
Thanks: 5,326
Thanked 852 Times in 279 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Thanks Wayne G, before going to Rome and Florence I spent a lot of time researching the B&M engine and found a lot of info but mostly in Italian . I found no engines in museums with the exception of the new repros. The site you posted I had not seen before so I suspect it has been posted after our trip. It seems the rack and pinion design of the Otto & Langen may have had its beginings 10 years earlier ! Wayne T I've been watching for that Guldner book for years and not been able to find one, thanks for the picture.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 12-03-2007, 05:20:34 AM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 180
Thanks: 54
Thanked 227 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Talking about Barsanti and Matteucci, Does anyone know anything about the Austrian Siegfried Marcus? http://www.siegfried-marcus.net/index.php
He seems to have made his own engines to.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 12-18-2007, 10:25:37 AM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 180
Thanks: 54
Thanked 227 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oostvogels View Post
Hi all,

I am still waiting for the prommised information of mr. Dietmar Voss
He send me an email today, prommissing that he will try to give all the information I asked in Januari. I'll keep you all posted.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-19-2008, 08:35:07 AM
Wayne Grenning's Avatar
Wayne Grenning Wayne Grenning is offline
Sponsor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lockport, New York, USA
Posts: 3,245
Thanks: 3,178
Thanked 28,385 Times in 2,568 Posts
Images: 72
Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Jeanne, Have you heard back from Mr Dietmar Voss? - Wayne
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-21-2008, 07:23:54 AM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
Registered-III
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 180
Thanks: 54
Thanked 227 Times in 36 Posts
Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

No Wayne, I'll forward it to this thread as soon as it comes in.
Oh, and a happy New Year to you all if it isn't to late....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2008-1.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	29.1 KB
ID:	28455  
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-25-2008, 02:55:47 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,050
Thanks: 1,632
Thanked 2,053 Times in 558 Posts
Default Re: 1667 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oostvogels View Post
Talking about Barsanti and Matteucci, Does anyone know anything about the Austrian Siegfried Marcus? http://www.siegfried-marcus.net/index.php
He seems to have made his own engines to.
Hello Jeanne,

Happy New Year to all of you.

I have a little information on Siegfried Marcus. I attach a photo of one of his engines which was taken I believe at the technical museum in Prague.

I went there 2 years ago to see the only surviving Langen&Wolf atmospheric rack and pinion engine that I am aware of. Unfortunately all the engines had been packed away due to refurbishment.

I am not sure if they have been returned to display.

S Marcus has patent drawings featured in the book 'IC Engines Vol 2, United States Patent Office' printed in 1998, pg 41-53. His patents are from 1883.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	s marcus.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	168.0 KB
ID:	28603  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Otto & Langen Bill Hazzard Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 75 09-30-2017 10:04:21 PM
Otto & Langen gasengineman43 Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 2 02-15-2016 12:38:22 AM
1867 Otto Langen engine antiquecarman Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 15 02-16-2010 11:43:15 AM
Otto-langen James L Johnson Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion 27 03-21-2008 10:01:05 PM
Otto Langen Patrick M Livingstone Antique Engine Archives 0 10-06-2001 09:32:14 AM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:35:54 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277