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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?


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  #41  
Old 01-25-2008, 06:57:23 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne Timms,When you mention Prague what country are you refering to? Keven
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Old 01-26-2008, 12:46:40 AM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne,

Here are two photos of the Langen and Wolf at Prague. - Wayne

http://shutter02.pictures.aol.com/da...+IwgoA0300.jpg

http://shutter10.pictures.aol.com/da...hp6vN00300.jpg
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  #43  
Old 01-26-2008, 04:06:49 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi Keven, Prague in the Czech Republic, it is a very nice city.

Thanks for the photos Wayne G, that is the Langen&Wolf I wanted to see, do you know of any others ?

Does anyone know if the engines are back on show?
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  #44  
Old 01-26-2008, 08:39:06 AM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne,

There is another single shaft free piston engine at the museum in Prague, I believe it to be a late model Otto and Langen and is very similar in appearance to the Langen and Wolf. Unfortunatly I do not have any specific informaton on this engine as the pictures were taken by a friend of mine while touring Europe. I can post a couple photos of this one if you like.

Do you know at what factory the Langen and Wolf engines were manufactured at and for what years? - Wayne
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  #45  
Old 01-26-2008, 11:16:52 AM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne & Wayne, I believe there is a Langen & Wolf in Holland. I will have to dig through my pictures and see if i can confirm that. When I find the picture will let you know. Keven
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  #46  
Old 01-28-2008, 06:30:53 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi,

I wasn't aware that the Prague museum had 2 rack and pinions. Would be great if you could post the photos.

With regards to the factory and build date, frankly not sure. But I have the following piece of literature. Firstly a library book from Deutz, if you look at the blue stamp it refers to WIEN (Vienna, Austria). Also I have an advertising card which states in Italian text that they are the fabricators of the engine, based in Milan, and a catalogue from the same place.

There is a Langen & Wolf horizontal c. 1905 in a collection near Venice, Italy. A Belgium collector also has the remains of a horizontal c. 1898. This collector has all the parts with the exception of the main block, what is interesting is that the Deutz engine of the same size and era is not compatible, leading me to believe that they were independent manufacturers.

Sounds like there could be one in Holland as well from the post by Keven. Would be good to see a photo.
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  #47  
Old 01-28-2008, 06:48:31 PM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

here some links that may be of interest:
http://www.bimbi.go.ro/eng.htm
http://www.stelet.it/prodotti.php?idProd=184

Hope you'll enjoy
Jeanne
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:09:53 PM
Oostvogels Oostvogels is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

http://www.industrie-kultur.de/modul...rticle&sid=100
Hi all, for those who know even less German then I do I made a free translation of the article you see when you click the above link, I hope it makes sense:Many firms have an archive and collection of their history
There is a one off collection of Deutz AG, which gives a thorough view of the more the 140 years of history of the combustion engine builders. The beginning of building four stroke engines by Nicolaus August Otto. He started in 1864 with the engineer and sugar manufacturer Eugen Langen in Köln the N.A. Otto & Cie., the first engine factory in the world. They tried to make an internal combustion engine from 1861 on, and in 1876 they had a successful four-stroke engine. This engine, started from Köln, motorized the world. The engine collection documents Köln as cradle for the motorization of the world and also makes the historical significance of Köln as Economic and Technological place clear.
The original engine collection starts from the year 1875 as N.A. Otto's DEUTZ-Motor NR. 1, an atmospheric gas engine from 1867, but not only Otto engines but also other engines for study purposes. The collection grew fast and was shown to the public from 1925.
During the war they brought the collection in safety outside Köln. In 1964, during the 100th birthday of the firm, the engine collection had a good place in the Klöckner-Humboldt-Deutz AG in Köln. during the first few weeks the interest of technically interested people was great.
More then 30.000 visitors every year were interested in the History of the development of gas engines. The Museum existed till the building was sold in 1992.
Until 1997 the collection was the basis for an industry and techniques museum for the city of Köln but this never became a reality. For a long time they only could be seen in an historical depot in Rheinauhafen in an improvised exhibition. Of course the city had to give the collection back and for a long time the collection no longer could be visited at all. With the moving of the firm from Köln-Deutz to Köln-Porz in the end of 2006 the engine collection was now received in the new "Technikum" in Köln-Porz and again has an appropriate location.
At the opening on August 27 – 2007 North-Rhine/Westphalia's Minister of economics Pinkwart participated. The engine exposition is a part of the Enterprises-own exhibition and conference center. The collection can be visited by appointment and during a visit to the company.
For the story of Deutz AG: http://www.deutz.de/live_deutz_com/f...ik_de/app.html
Making an appointment for a visit call:
Tel. (0)221-882 0 or mail to info@deutz.com
It took ages but Wayne Grenning and maybe some more of you may want to know
I still didn't get more info of Mr.Voss, but I'm patient, he must be very bussy.

regards of Jeanne
www.stationaryengines.tk
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  #49  
Old 02-07-2008, 10:49:00 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Jeanne, Thank for the update. Maybe I will try the Deutz info email address. Let us know if you hear from Mr Voss

Wayne. Sorry for the delay. These are the photos of the other Otto and Langen at Prague: Unfortunatly I have no details on this one.




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  #50  
Old 02-28-2008, 02:11:55 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keven Withers View Post
Wayne & Wayne, I believe there is a Langen & Wolf in Holland. I will have to dig through my pictures and see if i can confirm that. When I find the picture will let you know. Keven

Wayne & Wayne, I have found my picyures of the Langen & Wolf Atmospheric Engine. You guys should thank Beth for getting me started on posting pictures to the Ford Museum sale. Because it made dig out my pictures and had to learn once and for all how to post pictures.

If I remember right there were 2 of these in this museum. One had been cut away for display but it may be just this one and is cut away on the backside. There are also a couple of other Langen & Wolf items in this museum that I can scan and post if you would like me to. Keven
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  #51  
Old 02-28-2008, 05:16:35 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi Keven,

Very nice photos, I have not come across this engine before.
I believe the engine in Prague has a number of around 500, this engine is early at 144.

I have never seen a rack and pinion with a curve spoke wheel, but the arrow cast into the flywheel is a traditional design, normally cast into the block, for these types of engine - so it looks original. See picture.

Judging from the size of the arrow and the four curved spokes in the flywheel my guess is that it is 1/4 hp in size.

There appears to be another rack in the background of the photo - do you have pictures of it you could post ?

Any chance you remember where the museum was, would love to see the engines ?

Wayne
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  #52  
Old 02-29-2008, 11:06:25 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne, The pictures are a little dark with everything painted black. In the second picture in my last post to the right there are a pair of flywheels. In studying my picture closer it looks to be the second Atmospheric Engine and the bottom of the cylinder is clearly cut away. I will post a picture of the engine that is directly behind the Atmospheric engine with the curved spoke wheel. I cant see the name clearly enough on it to tell what it is. It does have a verticle camshaft with a nice govoner on top.

In the second picture is a newer Langen & Wolf.

Keven
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  #53  
Old 02-29-2008, 11:16:32 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne, I think you will also like this post. Also look to the left side on both pictures there is a awfully nice engine that has been cut away for display. Quite a shame I think but the engine in front is quite nice. Can you identify the cut away engine? I said Holland before for the location but believe the museum was in Austria. I didnt take these pictures. This is all I have from this museum that I can think of. If I find anymore I will post the pictures. Keven
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:38:01 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Keven, Thank for posting the pictures!

I head a few time over the years that there was an Otto & Langen engine in St Louis ( many years ago) - possibly at the St Louis Transportation Museum? So the story went "something bad happened to it and it was removed from the display and not show to the public since". Any one else head of this or is it maybe just Urban Legend?
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Old 03-01-2008, 03:58:58 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne,
Unless they've moved it you could see it in one of their displays. It was sort of hidden behind some other items. The engine came from Ohio State University. OSU had it and a horizontal Schlicher Schumm slide valve. The OL was in the engineering dept. and some of the students decided to try to start it. They didn't know how it operated and pulled a full charge of fuel into the cylinder. They blew the piston out the top taking the clutch and cross shaft off. This is maybe why you've heard "something was wrong with it". Possibly because it was damaged or maybe the folks at OSU were afraid to have this old equipment around since one had blown up an luckily no one was injured, they decided to get rid of it. The Smithsonian was offered both engines and agreed to take them if OSU would deliver them. OSU wouldn't agree to this arrangement. The Harold Warp Museum from Minden, Nebraska heard of the engines and agreed to come and pick up the horizontal since it was complete (its still on display at the Museum). A gentleman named Heinrichs from St. Louis contacted OSU and agreed to come and get the OL Atmospheric for a museum they were trying to create in St. Louis. These events transpired probably in the late 50's. There was a bit of controversy over Atmospheric engine in the 70's. From what I understand the Heinrich's estate felt the Atmospheric engine actually belonged to the estate and not the Museum of Transport. It was resolved and the engine permanently belongs to the Museum along with some sort of arrangement, from what I understand, that it was to never leave the facility. Its been many years since I did some research on both of these engines but I think I have the story pretty accurate from memory.
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  #56  
Old 03-01-2008, 08:22:41 PM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Wayne, Yes I had heard about the engine. I didnt realize it was there when we went and picked up our Model of 1912 50 H.P. Otto from there. Our Otto came from Heinrichs. I would have looked for it had I known it was there. We didnt spend much time in the Museum . It was my understanding that it went to the Ford Museum from the University and was probably traded to the Railway Museum. Tommy is right about the engine it was under the stairwell and the students tryed to start it and did what you always tell us not to do with ours and blew the piston out the top and pretty well busted it up. John Wilcox can tell you the story on it. I do have a few pictures of the Stuff that was down in the hollow with the big Otto if any one would like to see them. I would put them in another thread. Keven
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:00:34 PM
Len Spoelman Len Spoelman is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

You guys that are handy with this stuff, how about someone putting together a good website bringing together the Otto/Otto-Langen information discussed with website locations, pictures, and museum or private locations where possible. The need was just illustrated by Kevin in that he may have been in the very museum, but did not have the information at hand to inquire for the engine, and a golden opportunity was lost.
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:57:36 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi Keven,

I have looked at the photo - it is very dark. My best guess is that it is a twin cylinder inverted engine with a single crank, and a cross-mounted cam shaft.......and of course this doesn't make sense!

What do the other collectors think ?

By the way the engine on the left of the photo looks like a Bisschop/Sombart......but I have never seen one with the cooling fins in a larger diameter than the flange that bolts the guide column on.

Thanks for the photos.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:58:54 AM
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi all,

Hi Wayne, I would agree with you on you guess on the engine in the dark photo is a two cylinder engine with a cross shaft. And yes, it doesn't make sense till you see a full picture of it. I found this in volume 2 of American Gasoline engines By C.h. Wendel page 402 in the European engines appendix.
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/attach...5&d=1204622626
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Old 03-04-2008, 06:41:36 AM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: 1867 Otto Langen SN 1 Where is it ?

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your post. I can't open the link and I would really like to see the engine. I have Wendels big yellow book - but I guess this is a different book ? Can you post the pictures please.

Wayne Timms
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