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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum


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  #61  
Old 03-01-2008, 04:24:33 PM
LCJudge LCJudge is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Wayne (T),
Regarding the engine you have marked, I don't think it was in the HFM auctions in '83 or '85. It's probably in a warehouse somewhere. I'll look through the sales catalog from the auctions to see if I spot it.
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  #62  
Old 03-01-2008, 05:18:45 PM
John Merry John Merry is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

This is a great thread- the earlist IC engines are facinating. Were any Charter engines on the sale list? Do any of the 1st model Charters survive- the one with the separate charging cylinder and compression cylinder?
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  #63  
Old 03-01-2008, 06:24:23 PM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne A Thackery View Post
Don, do you have a lot number? I don't see anything listing for an inverted Pierce. Maybe Kevin can help out with the lot number.
Sorry Wayne, I don't have a lot #, but I have a picture of it I took in 1974. I don't know if it was on the auction bill or not ? Just wondering.
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  #64  
Old 03-01-2008, 08:05:27 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

First of all Folks lets keep this on track to Henry Ford Museum. We can talk Atmospheric Engines in another thread. Don if you look at the 2 scans of the Internal Combustion Engines it doesnt appear to have been on this Auction. but may have been on the earlier sale or on one of the sealed bid sales. I want to finish off with the the black & white pictures that were in my last posts. They are steam but were taken at the time of the gas engine pictures.

If you guys want me to keep posting pictures I will post the pictures I took of the engines that were in the museum at the time of the sale next.

These are the last of the pictures that were taken in the 70s. Photos #3 & 4 are of the same engine and is about the right size Corliss to have in anyones collection.

Enjoy Keven
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  #65  
Old 03-01-2008, 08:25:33 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Thanks for these and all the other photos Keven. It breaks my heart to think about what was at the HFM and what is there now in terms of IC engines, steam engines, mechanical devices, etc. I would bet old Henry himself would be heartbroken as he was instrumental in collecting many of the engines that were there.
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  #66  
Old 03-02-2008, 09:41:29 AM
Don Selmer Don Selmer is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Keven, Keep sending pictures !!! Another engine I remember well ( HFM ) was a real nice 15 H.P. F&M Special Electric. That was the first engine I'd ever seen the had flywheels taller than me.
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  #67  
Old 03-02-2008, 11:31:10 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Kevin, if you have the time to scan additional picture I, along with many others I'm sure would appreciate seeing them. Photo's are the only way to look into the past for lots of folks.
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  #68  
Old 03-02-2008, 11:39:57 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Thanks for all your work in posting pictures and comments, Keven.
The first time I was in the HFM was about 1955 and I really only remember a couple of things about it.I had a little box browney camera and was allowed one eight picture roll of film for the museum. The only picture I have left is of a giant locomotive which I think is a Union Pacific BIG BOY. The one thing I remember clearly was my Dad, who was a musician, standing in front of a showcase with a Stradivarius violin in it, and a little tear in his eye because the violin was locked up and couldn't be played.
Iron Wolf
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  #69  
Old 03-02-2008, 03:42:19 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Keven:

Thanks for all the photo's and the information you included with them it has been good info (really good ) . And thanks to those that responded to them.
The sun has been out for a couple of days and I can't wait for my trip back to play with engines. (really it is work not play and a lots of it).
Tell your dad hello.
Jim
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  #70  
Old 03-02-2008, 07:48:29 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Thanks everyone for the nice comments. This has been a learning experiance for me and if it wasnt for Beth I would never have gotten started. Thanks Beth

I figured I better get some more pictures posted here. The next series of pictures will be of pictures I took of the engines that were on display at the time of the sale. Again I should have taken more than I did . You can tell what my interests were at the time.

The first picture is of a 25 H.P. Fairbanks Morse Type NB with electric lighting flywheels. Diameter of the flywheels are 6' 3" very impressive engine. This is the engine that Don is refering to as a 15 H.P. engine. Yes that is yours truly in the picture in my younger and better days.

Picture #2 is of a large twin Miller engine. If I remember right John Wilcox told me that this was the earliest know Miller engine and it does have a different valve mechanism than the Millers at the Coolspring Power Museum.

Picture #3 is of a large verticle twin cylinder Diesel engine. I want to say it is a MAN Diesel engine. Someone correct me if im wrong. In the foreground you can see two of the Otto Slidevalve Engines there will be better pictures of them in a later post.

I believe all three engines are still owned by the museum but dont know if the are still on display.

Enjoy Keven
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Last edited by Keven Withers; 03-02-2008 at 08:05:17 PM. Reason: more information
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  #71  
Old 03-02-2008, 08:03:17 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

The next three photos are of the large Crossley Bros. Otto Rack & Pinion Atmospheric Engine with slide valve ignition. This is a very tall engine and I believe 2 H.P. I guess I didnt take a full shot of it so you will have to look at it in pieces. I believe it is still owned by the museum but dont know if it is a display yet. Wayne Grenning should be able to tell us more about the engine and may have more pictures .

Enjoy Keven
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  #72  
Old 03-02-2008, 08:55:46 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Keven, Yes, as far as I know the 2 HP engine you pictured is a Crossley Bros. I have no information regarding its history but one thing for sure is its size. It is huge! See picture showing the whole engine with a much younger me standing beside it. I stand 6' tall and the crankshaft is still above my head. As mentioned by Wayne Timms in the Otto Langen thread they are very top heavy nd prone to damage. I can not imagine moving this. On a related note, the second photo is of a similar engine ( in running condition) on display at the Anson Engine Museum.



Last edited by Wayne Grenning; 03-02-2008 at 09:10:06 PM.
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  #73  
Old 03-02-2008, 11:35:42 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Hey Keven!

I'm really glad everyone is enjoying your treasure trove of pictures! A lot of great information is being shared.

Here are 2 pictures from my visit to HFM at the end of December.

The first fascinates me because I cannot imagine the work that had to go into making these tools. The nuts were not uniform. Can you imagine the challenge of finding the right wrench? Excellent reason for the Crescent adjustable wrench to be made!

The second is the GASTEAM engine that used to be at the River Rouge Ford Plant, I believe. It was huge & quite creative. Not quite your typical "gas engine."

Beth
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  #74  
Old 03-03-2008, 12:03:15 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Thanks Beth for the pictures. I remember spending a quite a bit a time around the GASTEAM engine. Again didnt take any pictures . I am familier with the big unusual gas engines. We were instrumental in the aquisition and setting up the up the 600 SNOW engine at Rollag but will save that for another thread. Keven
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  #75  
Old 03-03-2008, 03:13:12 AM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Does anyone have any information on that GASTEAM engine? It looks enormous. I've never seen anything remotely like it of that size.
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  #76  
Old 03-03-2008, 05:50:29 PM
Wayne Timms Wayne Timms is offline
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Okay,

I've course I would have a slide-valve, but looking at this picture, I realised I had seen the engine somewhere before. After hunting around I came across this photo from 'AtoZ of British Stationary Engines', by Patrick Knight. With Patrick's kind permission I post the information below :

"Morrison, Norton, Stockton-on-Tees, Co Durham. In 1879 one Jacob Morrison built what has been claimed the world's first oil engine. The engine, of vertical layout, remained on a local farm until the early 1930s when it was sold for the sum of £5 to Henry Ford, who was setting up his museum in Dearborn, Detroit, USA. "

I am sure you will all agree it is the same engine, clearly a historically significant engine. In my book, a more worthy engine to have than the slide-valve !

It would be good to confirm it is still in the hands of the HFM, and that they are aware of its significance.

Thankyou Keven for posting these photos, it is very much appreciated !
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  #77  
Old 03-03-2008, 10:31:51 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Had a chance to scan a few more pictures of the engines that were on display at the time of the sale. Enjoy Keven

The first picture is of a Otto Slidevalve built by Schleicher Schumm & Co. in Philidelphia PA. This is the sister engine to Lot #147. In the background you can see the Hornsby Akroyd Oil Engine & the Mietz & Weiss Oil engine.

Picture #2 is of a Otto Slidevalve built by Duetz in Germany. This is the sister engine to Lot #144. In the background on the left you can see a large three cylinder verticle engine. If I remember right it was a Reeves.

Picture #3 is of a Otto Slidevalve with the Piano Base built by Crossley Bros. in England. This is the sister engine to the Piano Base Crossley Bros. which was sold at the first public sale. That engine can be seen at the Coolspring Power Museum.

I assume these are all still owned by the museum but I heard that only one is currently on display.
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  #78  
Old 03-03-2008, 10:47:34 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Here are a couple more. Enjoy Keven

These two pictures are of the same engines but different views.

Picture #1 shows one of my favorite engines in the museum the engine on the left which is a Inverted Verticle Slidevalve Otto built by Duetz in Germany. The engine stands close to six feet tall and is one neat looking engine . The engine to the right is I believe a Sombart someone correct me if Im wrong.

Picture #2 is another view of one my favorite engines in the museum the Inverted Verticle Duetz which is in the center in this picture. the engine to the left again is The Sombart? and the engine on the right is a Rider Ericcson Hot Air Engine . By comparing it to the height of the Duetz I will say it is a ten inch size.
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  #79  
Old 03-06-2008, 07:41:44 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

Hey Keven,

Where are the next batches of pictures??

It is interesting to see how everyone views the different engines.

Beth
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  #80  
Old 03-07-2008, 07:42:06 PM
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Default Re: Gas engines of the Henry Ford museum

I better get some more photos posted here before Beth starts having withdrawl symtoms .

I will take this thread in a little different direction. These were taken at the first sale in 1982. Pictures were taken by my good friend Robert Lefever the fender man. These are of 3 engines that he purchased the day of the sale. Also included is a Tractor that was purchased by Richard Cummings from Michigan.

The first photo is of a sidecrank Otto built by Crossley Bros. in England. This engine is quite unique do to how the camshaft and valves are located. This engine is approximately 2 H.P. it has timed hot tube ignition and was built in the late 1880s early 90s. Robert being the fine man that he is traded this engine to my dad shortly after the sale . This engine has been put into running condition and can be seen displayed at Rollag MN. This engine is the only one know to exist in this style.

Picture #2 is another view of the Withers engine. Behind it you can see the Slidevalve Otto built by Crossley Bros. This engine also has the sidecrank design. This engine is still owned by Robert Lefever and has been put into running condition and can be seen at the Coolspring Power Museum in PA. This was the sister engine to Lot # 153 at the 1985 sale.

Picture #3 shows the three engines and the Ford tractor loaded and ready to go. The Ford tractor was purchased by Richard Cummings. The restored version is shown on the front cover of Gas Engine Magazine Feb. 1993. Information for it is that it was built in about 1937 as a experimental tractor using Ford Truck & Car parts. The Ford Museum classified it as a One Of A Kind and was used on the Ford Farm.

More Pictures in the next post. Keven
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