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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines


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  #21  
Old 03-30-2008, 09:20:21 PM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

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Originally Posted by GarysToys View Post
Please attached a schedule of other weekends that you plan to work.

I can't make it inApril but I sure would like to help when possible.

What a project. Where do we send donations?
I don't have any other firm dates in mind yet, but there will be a few more big work sessions throughout the summer and I am hoping that there will be a presence at the enginehouse every weekend with people working on various projects.

Our address is Tod Engine Foundation, 2261 Hubbard Road, Youngstown, OH 44505. We also have set up a method for contributing online by going here:https://www.networkforgood.org/donation/MakeDonation.aspx?ORGID2=311728637&vlrStratCode=CW 7qWnbKhOAoxlE2XMT6idrUJo6q7uPV5OxTtPjsOENG7Ao62r%2 fkey5HO7CxwApx
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  #22  
Old 03-31-2008, 10:44:48 PM
Rob Charles Rob Charles is offline
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Hi, I had a thought on a possible feul to feed the big engine .Suppose you were to make a really big wood smoke generator and run it on that? Don't have any idea of the logistics but maybe someone else does. Rob
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  #23  
Old 04-02-2008, 08:51:30 AM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

The next work session is a little over 2 weeks away and we still need a few more volunteers. Anyone have that weekend available?

I just spent $875 of my own money (approx. 2 weeks wages for me) to buy an office trailer to use at the Bethlehem enginehouse. I can't personally fund another project myself, the Tod Engine has me strapped as it is. If you want to see these engines preserved I need your help. A $20.00 membership in the Tod Engine Foundation or even a $50.00 or $100.00 contribution at this stage would be crucial. I don't want to give up on this. We have a good start, but need to keep it up. I'm not asking you to give up a half a month's wages, but I am asking for at least some minimal amount of support.

I've made it real easy to contribute. Just go to our website.

http://www.todengine.org/become_frie..._engines_today
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  #24  
Old 04-02-2008, 02:12:40 PM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Rick, do you accept cash?
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  #25  
Old 04-02-2008, 02:17:41 PM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Yes of course.
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  #26  
Old 08-07-2010, 12:45:20 PM
stormlord5500 stormlord5500 is offline
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

I seen an old Mesta engine ad on I think it was a Practical machinist forum. It showed a picture and it said they put three engines in at Bethlehem Steel. Are these Mesta engines or Bethlehem's own design?
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  #27  
Old 01-09-2012, 08:47:02 AM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

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Originally Posted by Preston Foster View Post
I have had the pleasure of seeing the engings run. They were on their last legs as for production use and the generating engines were out of service. The machine shop was still in operation and also an impressive sight. The parts room was also still intact when I saw the engines run and did it ever have the goodies.
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Preston, I was looking through this thread with interest. You were very fortunate to have seen these run. Do you recall if the moment was captured on video? - Wayne
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  #28  
Old 01-09-2012, 08:59:16 AM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Wayne: I do remember having a camera. I had to keep it out of sight as they were not allowing pictures. The video recorder was in my truck off site. There were 2 engines running the day that I was there with a group from CPM. We spent about 4 hours in the plant and were also in the machine shop area's. We saw the machines the engines were built on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Big machine's!
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  #29  
Old 01-09-2012, 09:35:50 AM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Preston, Amazing, The engines are monstrous. I can't imagine the equipment they used to build them on! When did they last run?
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  #30  
Old 01-10-2012, 10:44:36 PM
GarysToys GarysToys is offline
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Is there any plans to complete this project? If there is when and how do we make contact?
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  #31  
Old 01-11-2012, 08:54:00 AM
Bill Hazzard Bill Hazzard is online now
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

The building is closed so no work can be done. The roof is falling in and the casino, which owns the building, won't let anyone in. It is up to the casino when and if the roof will ever be repaired.
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  #32  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:04:31 AM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Wonderful thread.

I found some more info on these type of gas blowing engines in this link here written by Thomas J. Blalock:

http://www.ieee.org/organizations/pe...eshistory.html

Some interesting excerpts from that here and the engines in Wendel's BYB:

Gas in a Steel Plant
The operation of an early blast furnace required about four tons of air (equivalent to roughly 80,000 cubic ft) per ton of iron produced. The cold blast produced by the blowing engines was transformed into a hot blast by the stoves and introduced into the furnace via water-cooled nozzles called tuyeres (pronounced "tweers") located around the circumference of the lower part of the furnace. Similarly, this operation expelled nearly six tons (about 150,000 cubic ft) of top gas per ton of iron produced. The primary combustible component of this gas was carbon monoxide, and death by carbon monoxide poisoning was a major threat to early blast furnace operators.
Besides being used in the hot blast stoves, the top gas was used to fire steam boilers and various furnaces found in an inte grated steel plant. By the beginning of the 20th century, the Bethlehem Iron Company had become the Bethlehem Steel Company as a result of the introduction of open hearth furnaces for the purpose of refining molten iron from the blast furnaces into steel. The open hearth furnace replaced the earlier Bessemer converter in most cases because it was capable of producing a more consistent, higher quality grade of steel. Also, the open hearth furnace could be fueled with blast furnace top gas.

Introduction of Gas Engines
The use of steam-powered blowing engines required the production of steam in boilers, and this process was subject to inherent thermodynamic inefficiencies. It was recognized that a greater efficiency might be attained if the blast furnace top gas could be used directly in some sort of engine rather than as fuel to produce steam. Accordingly, the development of large reciprocating gas engines that were capable of operating on blast furnace top gas began, initially in Europe, during the 1890s. The most successful designs for such engines were those of the Augsburg & Nurnberg Company of Nuremberg, Germany. Consequently, similar engines later built by other companies, such as the Deutz Company of Cologne, Germany, came to be known as the Nurnberg type.
In the United States, manufacturers of large steam engines began building these gas engines under license during the early years of the 20th century. These manufacturers included the Westinghouse Machine Company of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; the Allis-Chalmers Company of Milwaukee, Wisconsin; and the William Tod Company of Youngstown, Ohio. In addition, the Mesta Corporation of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, manufacturers of equipment for steel mills, obtained a license for the production of Deutz engines. Mesta, in turn, licensed Bethlehem Steel to build such engines in South Bethlehem. Accordingly, one of the large shop facilities at Bethlehem, the No. 6 Machine Shop, became dedicated to the construction of gas blowing engines, both for use at Bethlehem Steel and for sale to other steel plants.
The blast furnace top gas, having carbon monoxide as its main combustible constituent, was a poor quality fuel. Its advantage, of course, was the fact that there was a great deal of it and it was essentially free. During the era of gas blowing engines, the top gas had a heat value of only about 90 Btu per cubic ft of gas while natural gas has a heat value of approximately 1,000 Btu per cubic ft. Therefore, the gas blowing engines had to be designed with very large cylinders to achieve a reasonable horsepower rating. Coke oven gas was of better quality, having a heat value of about 550 Btu per cubic ft. It was not, however, suitable for use in these gas engines because of its very high hydrogen content, which led to more severe detonation in the engine cylinders.
These huge gas engines, such as those used at Bethlehem Steel, were remarkably quiet in normal operation. Occasionally, a cooling water leak that would not be noticeable to the furnace operators would occur in one of the b last furnaces. The water, however, would be dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen in the intense heat of the furnace. The hydrogen would become part of the top gas used as fuel in the blowing engines, and the resulting change in engine sound would be detected by the gas engine operators. They, in turn, would telephone the blast furnace foreman to notify him that there was a water leak somewhere.
At the Bethlehem Steel plant, steam blowing engines were still being installed as late as 1906. However, a new blowing engine house was constructed in 1911 for the installation of gas blowing engines, and the last of the steam engines was retired in 1913. Eventually, a total of 17 gas blowing engines were in use at Bethlehem Steel that could supply a total of 440,000 cubic ft of cold blast air per minute to as many as seven operating blast furnaces. The normal operating pressure in the cold blast main was 30 psi.
These gas engines were nearly 80 ft in length and required 24-ft diameter, 100-ton flywheels. The early engines consisted of two gas cylinders in tandem and a single air cylinder (air tub). These were four-cycle engines, and the mechanism to control the intake and exhaust valves was external to the engine itself. Multiple spark plugs were required in each gas cylinder due to the slow flame propagation of the carbon monoxide gas. Four of the engines, however, were twin engines of a later design. These consisted of two tandem single engines side by side with a flywheel between them. Therefore, they consisted of four gas cylinders driving two air tubs. The twin engines we re rated at 5,000 hp, while the earlier single engines were rated at only 1,500 hp. All of the engines operated at a speed of 75–80 rpm.
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  #33  
Old 01-13-2012, 10:38:57 AM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

I read a short story called, "When are you going to turn respectable?" in a 1953? Reader's Digest Reader compilation. It was a true story about a guy who got a job in a steel mill (maybe this one?) and was working on Christmas or something with a skeleton crew. The Oxygen supply was locked up, so they got brave and tried using just compressed air to convert the steel. (unsure of exact terminology)
They found out it worked just as good as pure oxygen, and saved the company piles of money in the making of steel. It was a neat window into their little culture and how hard they worked. It may be able to be found by googling, if not, I can copy it sometime and post here.
Kevin
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  #34  
Old 04-30-2015, 09:47:22 PM
Karl Burkart Karl Burkart is offline
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

I came across this posting while looking for information on the Westinghouse Machine Company. Has there been any progress on this project or has it just been shut down due to safety issues?

Karl
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  #35  
Old 05-01-2015, 12:25:21 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is online now
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Does not sound like the casino has any plans for preservation. Might a letter campaign get them interested?
Andrew
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  #36  
Old 05-01-2015, 09:39:23 PM
steve mallette steve mallette is offline
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

FWIW : A lot of search able pictures and the like at this site...

http://digital.library.pitt.edu/imag...llections.html
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  #37  
Old 05-02-2015, 08:32:50 AM
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Default Re: Bethlehem Gas Blowing Engines

Here is a link:

Youngstown Steel Heritage
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