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Hit & Miss Gas Engine Discussion

Need an IHC expert


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  #1  
Old 12-18-2011, 10:25:57 AM
John Willis John Willis is offline
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Default Need an IHC expert

I am negotiating the purchase of a 1909 IHC 6 HP screen cooled portable. It has had a fair amount of "re-engineering" on it over the last 100 years. My biggest concern in trying to put it back close to original is the ignition. Currently it has a spark plug and some type of oscillating magneto with an ingenious homemade trip system. My question is - what would it have been originally? An ignitor with battery for starting and a Motsinger once it was running? Or a Webster bracket and magneto?
Also would anyone know the weight of the engine on the original horse drawn cart?
Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2011, 11:36:32 AM
Heller D. Davis Heller D. Davis is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

We just finished up restoring a 6hp screen cooled famous (1912). It has the ignitor with the webster tri-polar mag. It is a throttler kerosene engine.
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2011, 12:36:28 PM
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

John, I don't think the Webster system was available until around 1913. Someone may have more accurate dating than this.
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Old 12-18-2011, 01:24:07 PM
Harry Terpstra Harry Terpstra is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

It could have had a plain igniter with battery. The Mottsinger was a pricey option. Also a Webster was an optional extra too, and not yet available in 1909 yet.
I guess my 6hp hopper cooled saw-rig weights about 2200 lbs.
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Old 12-18-2011, 06:36:49 PM
Rob Charles Rob Charles is online now
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Hi, Original ignitors pop up on ebay once in a while. The 6 8 10 are the same. if you are missing the G330 ecc strap which is on the cam gear thats available they are the same from the 4 to 10 hp. The trip rod is a piece of 1/2" sq. cold rolled steel easy to make. There is a roller and an ecc pin for the trip rod. I can make those. Also you need a trip ramp which are available.Rob
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:06:20 PM
LeRoy IHC LeRoy IHC is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Hi Guys

I have parts books that show Webster Magnetos on IHC Engines back as far as like 1907 or 08. But these are not the Webster's with horse shoe magnets. The earliest set up had a special cylinder with a boss cast on to the side of the cylinder about half way between the rear of the cylinder and the boss where the roller goes for the ignitor trip. The magneto was square looking with flat bar magnets. The ignitor bolted into the cylinder up near the head in in it's normal location. A linkage ran from the magneto up to the ignitor and the ignitor was tripped in much the same fashion as on the Mogul sideshaft engines. The next Webster Magneto came out about 1909 or 10 and was a flatbar unit with the ignitor and magneto all mounted on the same bracket and it attached right at the ingnitor hole in the cylinder up near the head I believe this unit was refered to as an F2 it was phased out I think around 1911 with the standard horse shoe magnet style Webster which I believe used the JY magneto.

I hope this helps, but webster magnetos were around fairly early on IHC engines. I have never seen one of the first set ups I described other than pictures in my early parts book.

Happy Holidays to all

LeRoy
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:21:15 AM
John Willis John Willis is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Thanks to everyone that responded. I hope to go look at the engine next week if the weather cooperates and unless it looks hopeless and / or the price gets out of hand I will probably bring it home. Then I guees I will try to figure out what I have. Are parts books available for these?
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:37:01 AM
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Don Oberholtzer Don Oberholtzer is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Hi John, Starbolt will have the parts book. A standard igniters can be bought.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:24:25 AM
Wayne Rosier Wayne Rosier is offline
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Smile Re: Need an IHC expert

Hi John,
I have a 1911 8 hp TC Portable with a Webster mag on it, I'll see if I can get a picture to attach.
I can't attach the picture, it says invalid file. I didn't snap this picture, it was from the auction sale site when I bought it.I tried to resize it but the tool bar doesn't have a edit picture option, I don't know what to do now, send me you email address in PM and I'll send you the picture if you want to mess with it.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:49:47 PM
John Willis John Willis is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Well I got the engine and it is now at it's new home. I have attached a few pictures showing some of the unique engineering that has been done over the years. The ignition system is probably the most amazing. Once I start working on this I will probably be asking lots of questions. Does anyone know what the magneto is off of? I assume some sort of tractor.
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  #11  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:12:05 PM
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Magneto looks like a Bosch DU4 with the distributor eliminated and converted to an oscillating drive. Make and model of the magneto should be stamped on the side of the base. Those mags were used on a lot of early autos, trucks and tractors.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:25:47 AM
LCJudge LCJudge is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Wow, that "re-engineering" is pretty neat. You know, if that were mine I'd almost be tempted to leave it as is. Its a good example of how, in its day, the mechanics made do with whatever they had. It would have been much easier to do a buzz coil set up for the ignition but then you would have had a battery to worry about keeping charged up. I'm surprised its still got the original water and fuel pump on it. I can think of all kinds of options they could have changed them with.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:04:14 AM
John Willis John Willis is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Judge - I would almost go along with you to leave it as is but the engine was originally bought by the grandfather of the man I got it from. The grandson had planned to restore it back to original when he retired but his retirement plans have changed and he is moving to the city. So he only wanted to let it go if I would try to put it back close to original which I am going to try to do.

The story is that Grandpa bought it to pump water when the windmill wasn't pumping enough. And the location of the well was fairly remote. So they would fill it up with gas and get it going and then leave it to pump until it ran out of gas. That's why they added the automatic oiler so that they wouldn't have to go back and tend the oilers. The grandson also says that the remote location of the pump was probably the only reason that the engine didn't go for scrap during the war. No body wanted to go to all the effort to try to get it out.

The son and grandson retrieved the engine several years back and did get to run some about 4 - 5 years ago.

The grandson has a picture of his grandpa with the engine that he is supposed to send me a copy once he gets moved along with all of the history that he knows of the engine.

it should be an interesting project and you can see from the pictures why I may need the assistance of some IHC experts along the way.
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:50:13 AM
Farmer John Farmer John is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

John i think i would leave it as close to the way it is as possable..i like some of the homemade set ups...i might have to get in the truck and head up your way to see this one.....john
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:34:52 PM
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

I think its spectacular just as it stands! A lot of time and money and wisdom may make it factory setup again but it will never be as right and original as it stands now. I bet it looks great when it runs with the eccentric mag trip and the mechanical lubricator sat on top.

Joe
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:09:20 PM
Skip Landis Skip Landis is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

you could get the original parts & keep whats on it. run it either way. best of both worlds
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:00:15 PM
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

That is a sweet engine! I like it just the way it is too!

Could you post a picture or two of the clutch pulley and that side of the engine? Many thanks!
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:24:20 PM
John Willis John Willis is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Here's a few more pictures of the clutch side. I think the clutch handle is a wheel off something.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:38:40 AM
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Dale Barnett Dale Barnett is offline
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

That is a neat setup.
It is your engine and if you want to go back to original thats cool BUT I would get it running on the set up it has now and get lots of pics and some good video before I changed it back.
Just to have a conversation piece for years to come showing what can be done with a little of nothing an how good some of the people were at making do at the time.
Congrats on your find & have fun.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:24:03 PM
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Default Re: Need an IHC expert

Thanks for the pictures! My 4 hp has the same clutch pulley and was also missing the hand wheel. I was hoping to see an original on yours. You sure have a nice looking engine there!
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