Antique Engines and Old Iron

[Home] - [HELP] - [Forums] - [Groups] - [Classified Ads] - [Subscribe] - [Books] - [Sponsors] -

Go Back   SmokStak > SmokStak® Antique Engine Community > Small Air Cooled Gasoline Engines > Chain Saw Collectors
Forgot Password? Join Us!

Notices

Chain Saw Collectors Vintage chainsaws and other air cooled gas engine saws, collecting and restoring.

Chain Saw Collectors

Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!


this thread has 13 replies and has been viewed 432 times

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-03-2019, 07:56:02 PM
greg greg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Randoph, New Jersey
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

ok buddy of mine got two mercury disstion da-211 neither runs . so he asked me to try to get them running, im like not a problem im always fixing peoples engines and I love it.

I start working on one n it has no spark long story short replace the coils, condensers , points , spark plug wires , new plugs champion j 6c then went to j8c. even swaped out the magnetic rotor from the other saw, cleaned the hell out the carb and saw itself. cylinders have 120/125 psi also. now I got spark in both cylinders but after I get it running ( which is a freakin nightmare) It will only run on one cylinder and it doesn't matter which one . after it gets hot I will let it stall then put the hot plug into the cold cylinder and the cold plug into the hot cylinder . when I restart it the cold cyl with the hot plug will run !!!!!!! n not the hot cyl with the cold plug BUT if I run it for a while like 5 min or more the other cylinder will start to kick sputter and eventually run absolutely fine !!! now the motor is hot both cylinders r firing she s idling perfectly and sounds like a ported snowmobile lol. I have my carb adjustment screw out about 2 1/2 turns ( which seem way lean to me cause the other saw I did not tough the carb is set at 3 3/4 out ) im running a synthetic oil at 32:1 ( no load on the saw the bar and chain r off just the trans is on) . now when I turn it off and let it cool and go to restart it I go through the same crap all over again it will only run on one cylinder till the motor gets ho then the other cylinder will eventually kick sputter and final catch on and all is well. the longer I let it cool the longer it takes for it to eventually run on both cylinders !!!!! im am completely stumped !!! I don't believe that this is normal cause when its sit overnight its a nightmare to start the next day ( like 20 min of pulling) my last hope is that maybe the needle n seat are leaking causing it to flood out ????

any I mean any advice would help !! unless this is how theses saws run

thanks for any ideas !
oh n i'm new to this site to
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:23:22 PM
gdstew gdstew is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: New Philadelphia, Ohio, USA
Posts: 1,088
Thanks: 307
Thanked 611 Times in 399 Posts
Default Re: mercury disston da-211 seriously stumping me !

Welcome to the Stak

Those saws when correct start easily and run beautifully. A couple points--the replacement plug wires need to be wire, not carbon. Make sure you have the condenser, point wires going to the correct coils. Carb sound like it may be running lean, and also, maybe the crankshaft seals are dried out. I also assume the coils were new? I had about 15 of those saws and only 2 good coils! The old coils would drive you crazy.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-03-2019, 11:29:00 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Huntington, NY
Posts: 2,066
Thanks: 930
Thanked 1,104 Times in 734 Posts
Default Re: mercury disston da-211 seriously stumping me !

Never run 32:1 in your DA-211. 16:1 is the correct oil mix for your engine. I run 12:1 oil mix in my DA-211's. Too much oil never hurt anything. It sounds to me like you need to check your reed plate, double check the carburetor and your ignition. If you removed the stator plate to change the coils, your timing is off. You need a special tool to time your engine. Pull the plugs out of your engine, connect the threaded part of the plug via jumper wire to any unpainted metal part of the engine, and pull the recoil over slowly. You should get nice fat blue spark on both plugs. If you do not, your ignition needs work. You should probably check the resistance in your plug wires as well. If original, replace with Packard 440.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-04-2019, 02:24:20 PM
Andrew Mackey Andrew Mackey is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Rockaway, New Jersey USA
Posts: 14,239
Thanks: 2,000
Thanked 6,837 Times in 4,339 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

You are using the wrong mix for your saw! Hopefully, you have not wiped out the crankshaft seals due to lack of lubrication. 16:1,using SAE 30 NON Detergent or TCW-3 OIL ONLY! No pre-mix lubricants or modern stuff. You MUST use OIL! There are 3 seaals. One at each end and one between the cylinders. If the seals are bad, the cylinder will starve.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:43:20 PM
greg greg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Randoph, New Jersey
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: mercury disston da-211 seriously stumping me !

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdstew View Post
Welcome to the Stak

Those saws when correct start easily and run beautifully. A couple points--the replacement plug wires need to be wire, not carbon. Make sure you have the condenser, point wires going to the correct coils. Carb sound like it may be running lean, and also, maybe the crankshaft seals are dried out. I also assume the coils were new? I had about 15 of those saws and only 2 good coils! The old coils would drive you crazy.
i'm thinking crank seals to !! ( very hard starting) do you know the size of them or a old part number that I can look up ? also just went through the carb again tonight and it was pretty much spotless
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:46:35 PM
greg greg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Randoph, New Jersey
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: mercury disston da-211 seriously stumping me !

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tron View Post
Never run 32:1 in your DA-211. 16:1 is the correct oil mix for your engine. I run 12:1 oil mix in my DA-211's. Too much oil never hurt anything. It sounds to me like you need to check your reed plate, double check the carburetor and your ignition. If you removed the stator plate to change the coils, your timing is off. You need a special tool to time your engine. Pull the plugs out of your engine, connect the threaded part of the plug via jumper wire to any unpainted metal part of the engine, and pull the recoil over slowly. You should get nice fat blue spark on both plugs. If you do not, your ignition needs work. You should probably check the resistance in your plug wires as well. If original, replace with Packard 440.

Chris
reeds are in great shape stator plate was put back where it was and I have good spark in both cylinders now im thinking of a crank seal that its possibly cracked
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:48:33 PM
greg greg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Randoph, New Jersey
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

im also trying to find a parts breakdown of the motor also
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:16:17 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Huntington, NY
Posts: 2,066
Thanks: 930
Thanked 1,104 Times in 734 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

If the engine idles fine, the crank seals are okay. Taking the stator plate on and off even if you marked where it goes does not ensure that it is aligned properly.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-05-2019, 07:02:44 PM
greg greg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Randoph, New Jersey
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by K-Tron View Post
If the engine idles fine, the crank seals are okay. Taking the stator plate on and off even if you marked where it goes does not ensure that it is aligned properly.

Chris
do you know what kind of resistance im looking for in my plug wires ? I honestly think the spark is week but its blue , I mean i've replaced everything in the ignition system , the condensers were matched up by size at a old mercury dealer ( not sure of the specs) coils are the ones from ebay points are new , grounds seem to be good, swapped the rotor magnets with the other saw ( maybe a week magnet ??) . if the spark is truly week I have no idea what else I can do. the contacts on the points are not making 100 percent contact of the entire surface ( they actually make contact one side and the other side is open maybe .002 but im pretty sure points would not create a stronger or weaker spark) I have played with the timing from one extreme to the next really did not see any difference in ease of starting . I also read somewhere that the timing is supposed to be 21 degrees btdc I would assume a with a degree wheel I could figure that out but I don't think the timing is that far off where it would be that hard to start a cold motor. once the engine is very warm and running on both cylinders I could turn it off and it will fire up on one pull like a minute later but if let it cool any loner than that it will start on one cyl then after it reaches a certain temp the other will begin to fire and the longer I let it cool the longer it takes for the secondd cyl to fire ???
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:39:37 PM
K-Tron K-Tron is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Huntington, NY
Posts: 2,066
Thanks: 930
Thanked 1,104 Times in 734 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

The condition of the points can make or break an engine in regards to how well it runs. If the contact points are not parallel, clean or smooth the engine will run poorly. If there is any arcing taking place than the points need to be replaced. You should have a nice fat blue spark on each plug even at a slow cranking speed. The original Bendix Scintilla coils are good hot coils, just prone to cracking over time. You should have next to no resistance in your plug wires. If the resistance value changes as you flex of move the wire, the wire is junk and should be replaced. I would have to check my DA-211 operators handbook for the timing spec. I have the correct tool which threads into the sparkplug to locate TDC, to perform the ignition setting procedure. It is not terribly difficult to do with the right tool, it has just been quite a few years since i have done it. From what you describe, you either have a weak ignition, or a faulty fuel system.

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-06-2019, 10:24:26 AM
Big Chip Big Chip is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

I have had the same problem with all of my DA 211's..I have 4 of them and keep 2 running...
The cure for me was was to always turn the fuel shutoff off if shut down for more than a few minutes....poor needle and seats or poor cork floats...? I have even tried coating the floats with nail polish...!
FYI: i run 16:1 Yamalube, same plugs as you, i have new coils and plug wires etc.,26 degrees of timing, and new crank seals...(i forget the seal number but they are readily available). They start on first or second pull unless they are flooded...
Hope you get it sorted out..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-06-2019, 12:16:13 PM
mschreiber mschreiber is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: crown point ind. or plymouth ma.
Posts: 1,881
Thanks: 3,281
Thanked 1,477 Times in 688 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Chip View Post
I have had the same problem with all of my DA 211's..I have 4 of them and keep 2 running...
The cure for me was was to always turn the fuel shutoff off if shut down for more than a few minutes....poor needle and seats or poor cork floats...? I have even tried coating the floats with nail polish...!
FYI: i run 16:1 Yamalube, same plugs as you, i have new coils and plug wires etc.,26 degrees of timing, and new crank seals...(i forget the seal number but they are readily available). They start on first or second pull unless they are flooded...
Hope you get it sorted out..
THIS, i had mine running and it had issues... biggest being what i believe float problems. Could never decent float operation. Its a shelf sitter now. Good luck.

1st posting of mine, https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175207

2nd posting of mine, https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177282

Video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzX-qzChPwI&t=
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-06-2019, 07:36:25 PM
greg greg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Randoph, New Jersey
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

thanks for the advice guys I pretty confident that the fuel system is in check , its either the seals or points / timing are my thoughts . I pulled off the fan housing plate on the other saw and the seal in my opinion is shot cause the rubber did not feel like rubber it felt like hard plastic so that makes me believe if there is a small crack or bad seal on the running saw after the engine gets warmed up the hard rubber seal become more plyabl ( rubbery) which would cause it to seal against the crankshaft hense that cylinder to draw the correct amount of air/fuel and bregin to fire ??? the points do arc hear n there but they are supposedly brand new and they are not 100 percent parallel to each other ( maybe .002 difference once contacted ) iv read the other posts about a heavy float how do you determine if you have a heavy float or not.

once again when it is warmed up and running on both cylinders it runs and idles absolutely fine. if I knew how to post a video I would lol
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-08-2019, 11:37:40 PM
greg greg is offline
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Randoph, New Jersey
Posts: 9
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mercury Disston da-211 seriously stumping me!

any of you guys recall the approximate location of the stator/magneto plate was in the adjustment slots ? when I adjust the timing to 26 ( or .111 in) degrees btdc my plate is almost fully advanced and according to my pics before I took it apart it was almost dead center.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

F o r u m Jump

Similar Threads Chosen at Random
Thread Thread Starter F o r u m Replies Last Post
Mercury Disston DO-101 hunternick Chain Saw Collectors 0 11-23-2018 06:51:58 AM
Mercury Disston DA 211 I'm working on, pics mschreiber Chain Saw Collectors 19 02-05-2018 03:34:49 PM
Mercury Disston KB6AX 295 tramp Chain Saw Collectors 2 04-01-2016 11:30:24 PM
Mercury Disston 211 Chainsaw Likes Old Chainsaws Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs 1 03-21-2013 09:10:26 PM
Mercury Disston 211 Chainsaw Likes Old Chainsaws Magnetos, Ignition Coils and Spark Plugs 0 03-21-2013 04:06:21 PM


Use "Ctrl" mouse wheel to change screen size.
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:03:14 AM.

Smokstak and Enginads site search!


All use is subject to our TERMS OF SERVICE
SMOKSTAK® is a Registered Trade Mark - A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts
Copyright © 2000 - 2019 by Harry Matthews P.O. Box 5612 - Sarasota, FL 34277